Banana Fish
- Thread starter ZetsubouKaiji
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Starra
Well-Known Member
21:
PS Foxx needs to be stabbed in the dick ten thousand times.
Eiji's sister knew exactly what she was doing when she gave him a good luck in love charm. And it worked, dammit!
Yut Lung with his hair down is 100000000000/10, oof.
Also the contrast between hair-down Yut Lung threatening the Chinese and Yut Lung with a ponytail having to behave himself around creepy white people is amazing.
The gay bar scene was hilarious in the most awkward way. Max is extremely straight so the fact that he even suggested going to a gay bar is... something. And then he complains when he gets touched by random guys. Like yes, dude, it's a gay bar, I don't know what you expected. I do feel for him in that having to pretend to be a couple with the kid who's like a son to you would've made him feel extra awkward on top of everything else.
SPEAKING OF MAX he is a good man even if he is a bit useless. He'll do things that'll cost him his job to protect Ash and he tries really hard to help him in any way he can... Though part of that is probably that he still feels guilty about Griffin, but eh. It's also the dad in him.
Yut Lung with his hair down is 100000000000/10, oof.
Also the contrast between hair-down Yut Lung threatening the Chinese and Yut Lung with a ponytail having to behave himself around creepy white people is amazing.
The gay bar scene was hilarious in the most awkward way. Max is extremely straight so the fact that he even suggested going to a gay bar is... something. And then he complains when he gets touched by random guys. Like yes, dude, it's a gay bar, I don't know what you expected. I do feel for him in that having to pretend to be a couple with the kid who's like a son to you would've made him feel extra awkward on top of everything else.
SPEAKING OF MAX he is a good man even if he is a bit useless. He'll do things that'll cost him his job to protect Ash and he tries really hard to help him in any way he can... Though part of that is probably that he still feels guilty about Griffin, but eh. It's also the dad in him.
PS Foxx needs to be stabbed in the dick ten thousand times.
worknboy
Well-Known Member
Ep 21
I thought how they tighten up the story was not bad.
I thought how they tighten up the story was not bad.
They left out a few good lines and the ex-french legion assault on the rat's nest was alright but it did not show that this when on for hours and how Ash tactically plat the mercs to stall for time to get his peps to safety. From here on out hold on to your butts people!
And when Max geos to the bathroom, Ash says to him, "That might not be good because that is where the real action is."
And when Max geos to the bathroom, Ash says to him, "That might not be good because that is where the real action is."
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Ebonyslayer
Well-Known Member
Ep. 21,
seems like Ash and guys are planning their moves carefully, although getting attacked by war hardened mercenaries is pretty scary. Foxx needs to pay for what he's done to Ash and the other children. I really love how Max has become like a father figure to Ash up to this point, even if he hasn't been useful somewhat during the story. What they need is a lucky break against Foxx.
worknboy
Well-Known Member
And Max has been an absent father.
Franconator
Well-Known Member
Episode 21:
Big Daddy Cain is such a baller for keeping those shades on at all times of the day. Normally, I'd find people who wore their shades indoors obnoxious freaks, but Cain looks like he could pound me into pint-sized man meat, so I'm not gonna be the schmuck who says that to his face.
Big Daddy Cain is such a baller for keeping those shades on at all times of the day. Normally, I'd find people who wore their shades indoors obnoxious freaks, but Cain looks like he could pound me into pint-sized man meat, so I'm not gonna be the schmuck who says that to his face.
Fuck me, they're really doing the second-hand betrayal thing. Our heroes are so lucky Jessica conveniently showed up to the raid party to throw that shit off.
Starra
Well-Known Member
That's not exactly his fault. He was fighting for the custody of his son so, most likely, even if he'd wanted to be there for Michael, Jessica wasn't having it, lol.
He's just awkward and kinda useless... and sometimes makes jokes he probably shouldn't, like most dads. He genuinely cares about Ash (and Eiji) and wants to help them even though he has no real idea what he's doing.
Honestly, Max is one of the characters who's been through the most shit outside of Ash and Yut Lung. He's almost Blanca-tier for traumatic life experiences (but different kinds of traumatic life experiences). Blanca's at least stopped having traumatic life experiences too, Max hasn't, really.
Him burning those pictures of Ash proves that he's a good dude, dammit! He went through a lot to obtain evidence for his investigation and yet he couldn't bring himself to make Ash suffer any more. He's willing to sacrifice his job to protect Ash and that says a lot for a man like him.
Ebonyslayer
Well-Known Member
Ep. 22,
I gotta say, Eiji's death was both shocking and depressing. I could feel the devastation Ash was showing when he realized he couldn't do anything for his friend. There's going to be hell to pay now that Ash has a target for his rage. It was interesting seeing Jessica and Ash relating through their rape trauma. On another note, if you're interrogating someone, don't leave your cigarettes around, that's just asking for an unpleasant surprise.
Starra
Well-Known Member
22:
Eiji ;_;. He doesn't deserve this! Ash doesn't deserve this either. You can't just end an episode this way, MAPPA, this is cruel lol.
Smug Yut Lung is best Yut Lung. At least he's slowly realising he's fucking up and lets Blanca go to try and help even if he doesn't understand shit. One day he will, dammit! Maybe.
Lao's hatred of Ash seems more plausible in the anime if I'm honest. I kinda forgot about him in the manga but honestly? He's pretty justified since nobody will tell him shit.
Also I'm very glad they kept the convo between Ash and Jessica, I was worried they might cut it but it does clarify things so I'm pleased.
Also also: if next episode doesn't have Yut Lung explaining his backstory to Blanca I'll be sad. It's only a short bit but it makes him more justified sooo... Speaking of next episode it's going to be a lot, prepare yourselves!
Smug Yut Lung is best Yut Lung. At least he's slowly realising he's fucking up and lets Blanca go to try and help even if he doesn't understand shit. One day he will, dammit! Maybe.
Lao's hatred of Ash seems more plausible in the anime if I'm honest. I kinda forgot about him in the manga but honestly? He's pretty justified since nobody will tell him shit.
Also I'm very glad they kept the convo between Ash and Jessica, I was worried they might cut it but it does clarify things so I'm pleased.
Also also: if next episode doesn't have Yut Lung explaining his backstory to Blanca I'll be sad. It's only a short bit but it makes him more justified sooo... Speaking of next episode it's going to be a lot, prepare yourselves!
HasseRovdjur
Breast Claw
Episode 22
Gay and feminine-coded people are evil and vile. We get it. Also can't trust the Chinese. At least Ash and Eiji are PURE AND GOOD because they aren't rampant rapists or genderbent versions of dragon lady stereotypes. I may be a bit cranky tonight, but the parade of sexual assaulters is getting very one-note. At least Blanca is married, which presumably makes him a good egg, like Max. Apart from all the murder shit he does, and creating child soldiers, but I'll let that slide.
Assassins: the best way to get over rape trauma fast. Ash Lynx can vouch for it! Also another example of the inconsistent tone this show has. Either it's a joke when it at Max's expense, or it's a shitty way to show how perfect Ash is, or it's a way for him to score sadness points to try and make me not wish him dead with the rest in a big explosion. Which is a lost cause, because I think everyone should die in an explosion ending in every show, ever. Barely joking.
PEW PEW PEW shoulda loaded those guns with dumdum bullets before you discharged a firearm in Ash's general vicinity. You need stopping power and expansion, not penetration!
Assassins: the best way to get over rape trauma fast. Ash Lynx can vouch for it! Also another example of the inconsistent tone this show has. Either it's a joke when it at Max's expense, or it's a shitty way to show how perfect Ash is, or it's a way for him to score sadness points to try and make me not wish him dead with the rest in a big explosion. Which is a lost cause, because I think everyone should die in an explosion ending in every show, ever. Barely joking.
PEW PEW PEW shoulda loaded those guns with dumdum bullets before you discharged a firearm in Ash's general vicinity. You need stopping power and expansion, not penetration!
Starra
Well-Known Member
The thing is, everyone in this series is at the very least corrupt, except for Eiji. Even Ash isn't a "good" person in the same sense that someone like Eiji is. While you're meant to sympathise with him, the point is that he's done fucked up things and the reason why he's so hesitant to accept Eiji's love is because he knows that. Eiji still loves him unconditionally despite what he's done, and Ash thinks he's an irredeemable shithead who doesn't deserve someone like Eiji.
As for Blanca, he's meant to be kinda neutral, I think. And it's implied he regrets helping groom Ash, which is (imo) partially why he agreed to help Yut Lung -- he wanted to try and prevent the same scenario from happening again. Also, I think he wanted to try and move on from his past which is why he fucked off to the Caribbean in the first place. I took him as feeling guilt over what he's done.
FWIW I don't think you're entirely wrong (I just like talking to people about this series lol please don't think I'm being mean, I'm just sharing my own thoughts!) and Foxx isn't really necessary other than making Ash's story more 2tragic4u but I see pretty much all the characters as, at least, not good. I've seen complaints about the "gay people are evil" thing before, and I personally think it's more of a "rapist pedophiles are evil and they're the people that Ash has to deal with" rather than anything else, given the extreme ambiguity of Ash and Eiji's relationship (and I put that down to the manga being written in the 1980s in a shoujo magazine and the mangaka being unsure what she could get away with). Idk.
Lastly I'm iffy about the feminine-coded people being evil thing since that only really applies to Yut Lung and he's not evil, he's just jealous, bitter and doesn't understand unconditional love. I have other reasons for not thinking that's what the author's going for given certain side-story stuff, but that's all I'll say for now. But yeah the only trustable Chinese characters in the show are Shorter (which is why they targeted him lol), Sing and Shorter's sister.
Hopefully people will understand Yut Lung once his backstory's explained, if it's even included. I get why people don't like him but he's justified in his actions, dammit! And I say this as someone who loves both Ash and Eiji (and Ash/Eiji).
As for Blanca, he's meant to be kinda neutral, I think. And it's implied he regrets helping groom Ash, which is (imo) partially why he agreed to help Yut Lung -- he wanted to try and prevent the same scenario from happening again. Also, I think he wanted to try and move on from his past which is why he fucked off to the Caribbean in the first place. I took him as feeling guilt over what he's done.
FWIW I don't think you're entirely wrong (I just like talking to people about this series lol please don't think I'm being mean, I'm just sharing my own thoughts!) and Foxx isn't really necessary other than making Ash's story more 2tragic4u but I see pretty much all the characters as, at least, not good. I've seen complaints about the "gay people are evil" thing before, and I personally think it's more of a "rapist pedophiles are evil and they're the people that Ash has to deal with" rather than anything else, given the extreme ambiguity of Ash and Eiji's relationship (and I put that down to the manga being written in the 1980s in a shoujo magazine and the mangaka being unsure what she could get away with). Idk.
Lastly I'm iffy about the feminine-coded people being evil thing since that only really applies to Yut Lung and he's not evil, he's just jealous, bitter and doesn't understand unconditional love. I have other reasons for not thinking that's what the author's going for given certain side-story stuff, but that's all I'll say for now. But yeah the only trustable Chinese characters in the show are Shorter (which is why they targeted him lol), Sing and Shorter's sister.
Hopefully people will understand Yut Lung once his backstory's explained, if it's even included. I get why people don't like him but he's justified in his actions, dammit! And I say this as someone who loves both Ash and Eiji (and Ash/Eiji).
audinobutt
New Member
Oh my god it finally happened. :///// Man this anime is messing me up I just want Eiji and Ash to be safe and warm and in peace is that too much to ask for!? D: BF giving me them real feels. It is Loving only Eiji hours rn my dudes. *weeps in a corner*
Franconator
Well-Known Member
Mind the spoilers, you guys. Spoiler tags exist for a reason.
Episode 22:
Last time, we had Killer Bee and Harlem Chicken. This time, it's
Banana Fish's thug names are the gifts that keep on giving.
What's the deal with Ash thinking he's the only one who can suffer around here, eh? He's not a good guy to tell sob stories to, because he's just gonna one-up you every time. Not saying it's a dick move... but it's a dick move.
Episode 22:
Last time, we had Killer Bee and Harlem Chicken. This time, it's
Banana Fish's thug names are the gifts that keep on giving.
What's the deal with Ash thinking he's the only one who can suffer around here, eh? He's not a good guy to tell sob stories to, because he's just gonna one-up you every time. Not saying it's a dick move... but it's a dick move.
WAIT HOLY SHIT EIJI'S DEAD? WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK HOLY SHIT I WAS LAUGHING SO HARD WHEN HE SAID 'SAYONARA' TO ASH, I WAS ALL LIKE ISN'T THAT THE CHEESIEST, LAMEST FUCKING THING TO SAY RIGHT BEFORE HE GETS SHOT, AND NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME HE'S ACTUALLY DEAD?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!
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HasseRovdjur
Breast Claw
I know Blanca is more of an unwilling antagonist, being roped and blackmailed into this, but he hasn't done a lick yet to actually redeem himself. But he is practically a saint in the comparison with the other villains. However, it was more me noting that Max and Blanca are not outright rapists, and they have both been married. It sends a message I am not too keen about.
Ash is horrible scum, but Eiji and, more importantly, the narrative tongues his butt so much that I feel that there is some serious moral myopia around. I could be wrong, but it's the impression I've gotten. The writing is so overblown that I have a hard time seeing much nuance in this. That doesn't mean that more doesn't exist, of course.
I know it's written in the eighties, so of course Eiji and Ash can't be shown to love each other in a romantic way (except that they chose to update the setting, so the anime lost that explanation), but I don't think the pedophile argument holds water due to how many times adults are being raped here. And the fact remains that they are the only two queer coded (if ever so slightly, I can see people thinking it's just platonic love) characters that aren't rapist assholes. They are also very chaste.
Maybe Yut Lung counts, but I see him more as an asexual person that will only sex to gain power. Ash uses violence, and Yut Lung uses more feminine-coded means, like seduction and poison, being his effeminate counterpart.
It's more that villains are by their nature transgressive, so they can do things that the protagonists never could (like the Pied Piper coming out as gay before any superhero did, IIRC). Of course, this being Banana Fish, this means that they're sadist rapists and sometimes pedophiles, not just gay men. Imagine showing Foxx having a good time in a gay bar when he's not stalking Ash instead.
I am going by what the anime presents, and Yut Lung does a lot of petty shit that screams "evil", and let's just say that I think you can never be "justified" in ordering hits on civilians, even in the world of organised crime. We'll see.
Ash is horrible scum, but Eiji and, more importantly, the narrative tongues his butt so much that I feel that there is some serious moral myopia around. I could be wrong, but it's the impression I've gotten. The writing is so overblown that I have a hard time seeing much nuance in this. That doesn't mean that more doesn't exist, of course.
I know it's written in the eighties, so of course Eiji and Ash can't be shown to love each other in a romantic way (except that they chose to update the setting, so the anime lost that explanation), but I don't think the pedophile argument holds water due to how many times adults are being raped here. And the fact remains that they are the only two queer coded (if ever so slightly, I can see people thinking it's just platonic love) characters that aren't rapist assholes. They are also very chaste.
Maybe Yut Lung counts, but I see him more as an asexual person that will only sex to gain power. Ash uses violence, and Yut Lung uses more feminine-coded means, like seduction and poison, being his effeminate counterpart.
It's more that villains are by their nature transgressive, so they can do things that the protagonists never could (like the Pied Piper coming out as gay before any superhero did, IIRC). Of course, this being Banana Fish, this means that they're sadist rapists and sometimes pedophiles, not just gay men. Imagine showing Foxx having a good time in a gay bar when he's not stalking Ash instead.
I am going by what the anime presents, and Yut Lung does a lot of petty shit that screams "evil", and let's just say that I think you can never be "justified" in ordering hits on civilians, even in the world of organised crime. We'll see.
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Starra
Well-Known Member
Okay, that's fair. However, there is also Ibe, who isn't married and is not a rapist. Those two cops (Charlie and Jenkins) are also shown to be somewhat decent human beings and Charlie at least isn't married. I don't know if they ever clarified if Jenkins is or not.
Eh I do agree that the Ash dick sucking the series does is annoying. I think his flaws come across more in the manga, in the anime he's definitely a Gary Stu type and I get why people don't like him. I think the series was going for a "sometimes you have to do things that aren't your fault and there will be people who will love you unconditionally no matter how fucked up you are" thing. Maybe it's a difference in Japanese vs. western values that got missed somewhere along the line, I dunno.
I think the author left it ambiguous on purpose so that people could choose to read it as either platonic or romantic. The only thing that's canon is that Eiji's a virgin, but that doesn't mean shit, obviously. Part of me's also wondering if it's ambiguous because they didn't want to go for a "Ash is gay because he was raped as a child" type of message or whatever, but I could be reading too much into that. I do find it interesting that while the manga makes specific mention of Golzine liking young boys only, it's not brought up explicitly in the anime from what I remember. Marvin's the only one whose sexuality is confirmed, I think?
Mmmm I took the poison thing as more of a Chinese stereotype than anything else. Also, Ash uses seduction too, don't forget. He's more willing to make himself *~*slutty*~* or whatever for his own gain than Yut Lung is, who has only really been forced into situations where he's needed to be seductive. The whole thing with Golzine was set up by his brothers, for example, and he doesn't try it on anyone after he's killed them off. The one time he did was when he made that joke to Blanca but that was more to get the maid to fuck off than anything else really imo. Ash probably would've done something similar if he'd needed to.
This is fair. Who knows, maybe Foxx was a frequent visitor to that gay bar and that just happened to be when he saw Ash there. I did find Max's comments about how shitty it is to be targeted for sex to be extremely laughable. Like yes, hello Max, welcome to the series, take a seat and enjoy your stay. Watch out for the rapists.
Oh yeah, he is petty. Don't get me wrong. Blanca's been calling him out on his shit at least which is something. He's a hypocrite who's jealous and bitter and can't work out why everyone keeps choosing Ash and Eiji over him. Gee. I dunno, dude, maybe it's because you're trying to ruin a perfectly good relationship here. Also I'd argue that Eiji is almost as involved as Ash is now since he did try and shoot Golzine and has been directly involved in gang conflict, so he's not as innocent as the narrative tricks you into believing, lol (which, ironically, is probably Yut Lung's fault since he said all that shit about how Eiji would never get his hands dirty for Ash despite Ash being willing to kill for Eiji etc). Yut Lung still shouldn't be targeting him, of course, but eh. It's not so much that I think he's "justified" as that I can understand that he's warped by jealousy and a lack of understanding of unconditional love. Which is what Blanca's been trying to make him realise.
Rascal
Gold Supporter
22:
This show is beginning to grind on me and not in a sexy way. Can we have less rape please. I am not impressed with the rape. Rape does nothing for me.
I don't remember anything else in this ep because i was too busy being annoyed and started to fuck off doing something else.
This show is beginning to grind on me and not in a sexy way. Can we have less rape please. I am not impressed with the rape. Rape does nothing for me.
I don't remember anything else in this ep because i was too busy being annoyed and started to fuck off doing something else.
Starra
Well-Known Member
22:
This show is beginning to grind on me and not in a sexy way. Can we have less rape please. I am not impressed with the rape. Rape does nothing for me.
I don't remember anything else in this ep because i was too busy being annoyed and started to fuck off doing something else.
If I'm honest the rape stuff is annoying. I don't like it either. Like sure, it's for tragic backstory purposes initially, but the Foxx stuff is far to excessive (and it's already excessive enough as it is). I get that at the time it was *~*shocking*~* but in 2018... nah. We all know what it is, unfortunately.
I mean it's realistic in that rape happens and it happens a lot but it comes across as lazy storytelling here. This whole arc kinda feels to me like the author knew the point she wanted to get to but not how to get to it and this happened and it's a bit of a mess.
(Who says I can't criticise my fave series? You don't have to love every single aspect of something to consider it a fave imo. It's one of those cases where I completely understand why people don't like it but here I am getting emotionally invested in it so I guess the joke's on me? I'm just here for Yut Lung mostly though. And Ash/Eiji shipping.)
I mean it's realistic in that rape happens and it happens a lot but it comes across as lazy storytelling here. This whole arc kinda feels to me like the author knew the point she wanted to get to but not how to get to it and this happened and it's a bit of a mess.
(Who says I can't criticise my fave series? You don't have to love every single aspect of something to consider it a fave imo. It's one of those cases where I completely understand why people don't like it but here I am getting emotionally invested in it so I guess the joke's on me? I'm just here for Yut Lung mostly though. And Ash/Eiji shipping.)
Hemfrik
Well-Known Member
It's not exactly a bad show, and it may just be a problem with the adaptation, but it has been very strangely paced.
Plot points keep repeating (Ash gets into trouble, Eiji grows temporary balls, Ash gets out of trouble), character developement reverts every few episodes (Ash gets grimdark, Eiji loses his balls again) to allow for the same conversations to occur again (Eiji and Ash complain about grimdarkness and play house), and new mid-tier villains popping in and out constantly (Usually murderous and violent gay rapists).
As a result, it has been very hard to keep track of the larger picture, which still seems to be the main point. The show presents itself as a single story, yet behaves as a villain-of-the-week longform show.
When episode 22 rolls around with what seems to be supposed to be the end of act 2 for the show, it therefor feels more like just another arc kicking off. Except this time something of actual weight happened. That was admittedly nice.
Either go for a genuine long runner with seasonal villains, or cut out most of them and make a movie, I'd say. There's a good story to be told in there, just not in this particular manner.
Plot points keep repeating (Ash gets into trouble, Eiji grows temporary balls, Ash gets out of trouble), character developement reverts every few episodes (Ash gets grimdark, Eiji loses his balls again) to allow for the same conversations to occur again (Eiji and Ash complain about grimdarkness and play house), and new mid-tier villains popping in and out constantly (Usually murderous and violent gay rapists).
As a result, it has been very hard to keep track of the larger picture, which still seems to be the main point. The show presents itself as a single story, yet behaves as a villain-of-the-week longform show.
When episode 22 rolls around with what seems to be supposed to be the end of act 2 for the show, it therefor feels more like just another arc kicking off. Except this time something of actual weight happened. That was admittedly nice.
Either go for a genuine long runner with seasonal villains, or cut out most of them and make a movie, I'd say. There's a good story to be told in there, just not in this particular manner.