I'm here for the gay (the LGBTQ+ anime/manga discussion thread)

BL or GL?

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Claptrap said:
Not to say I don't get what you mean at all, I have a vague sense more like... I don't immediately entirely know if you mean because Richard isn't a good person, or the story is dodgy with LGBT elements, or something else because I've seen it used so differently.
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In this case, it's more an issue of "I'm really not sure that this element is handled in the kind of way that makes me want to recommend it to people looking for stories about that element", primarily the intersex stuff. Rep is definitely complicated - just in terms of Rose King, I know trans masc people who think it's a hot trash fire because of how it handles some gender stuff and I know trans masc people who think it's great because of how it handles that exact same gender stuff - and I would never want to dictate to people where they can see themselves (since I see myself in some real disasters). But at the same time, I also don't want to direct people to titles that I think would ultimately disappoint them just because they tick the box of "characters have this quality". Intersex people's specific issues aren't something I know enough about for me to have an idea of whether Richard would be one of those disappointing depictions or not, but I kinda suspect there are some issues there, so I've been feeling kinda ehhh about some people reccing the series on twitter specifically as intersex rep over the last few months.

I do think you might like Rose King, though. It's definitely got dark themes + complex characters going on, and Richard especially I find fascinating. It should make for a great anime, even if I doubt they'll get enough episodes to get to some of the best material. And I really hope they can get some of the same actors for it that they did for a drama cd a few years ago - I've heard some of it and Mitsuki Taiga played Richard perfectly.
 
@daisicles
Ok, I see, yeah I get that. Also thanks for the thorough explanation, helps me understand what to sort of prepare for more here with the Rose King.

For me, transmasc issues hit very close to home because.... well. Iamtransmasc. so. I'm... very excited but nervous lol. I also think that will make some of the issues hit a little close, but I'm kind of just psyched for any kind of even adjacent rep. I accept it will probably be, you know, very problematic and heavy though. It's not like the subject has been written about at length very much in anime or has much work predating it.

I can get that with being nervous about people recommending it without like, warnings or a heads-up. I remember I was in a irl LGBT discussion group once where someone said, 'Hisoka is great lgbt rep' and it left me a little flummoxed on how to not discount that person's feelings while also giving people a bit of a heads up about uh. Hisoka. lol
 
Also, I keep doubleposting here, but I found that interview with Gengoroh Tagame and, if you want to see interesting commentary on BL/geicomi divide, creators in the industry, pushing for more openness in the industry and grappling with the internet's archival ways/the impact of scanlations: Here
 
@Claptrap oof, yeah, that's like, I'm glad you like this character, nothing wrong with being into an interesting fictional villain and relating to certain aspects of them, but... I'll happily natter on about terrible but interesting characters being queer in various ways - Sk8 is providing me so many opportunities this season - but I'm sure not gonna be recommending them as anything beyond terrible but interesting to me without some heavy, heavy caveats about my questionable taste in characters.

And as another head's up re: Rose King, there's a lot of dysphoria and some misgendering going on in the story, if those are things that would make it a no-go (or a careful-go) for you as a series.
 
Claptrap said:
@daisicles
I always think rep is a complicated thing, because it means different things to different people. I see people use it to mean like, 'an ideal lgbt character' and sometimes used to mean 'an lgbt character I would personally like and be interested in'. Personally I'm more interested in the latter, but I always am not entirely sure what the extent of rep is, you know*

(*thinkin about enta being called bad rep when what I want is complex lgbt characters who fuck up, that's part of it lol. I think there's a definite debate between two spheres of content right now, in general, moreso in places like twit)

Not to say I don't get what you mean at all, I have a vague sense more like... I don't immediately entirely know if you mean because Richard isn't a good person, or the story is dodgy with LGBT elements, or something else because I've seen it used so differently.

That said, what you said is interesting. I've really kept my eye on the show because I like dark themes + complex characters and it FEELS like it has those. From what you're saying, sounds right, but like it'll be a hard watch. I'm very interested and hope the adaptation is done well.
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I've thought about what I want from representation for a pretty long time. I get that tragedy and negative portrayals of LGBTQ characters can be quite exhausting for many. I do want more happy endings for gay people in stories, that it's not just about misery and suffering. At the same time, I still find myself actually pretty drawn to stories that draw attention to the discrimination against gay people and tragedy. I think the important thing for me is the amount of nuance put into discussing broader social issues, because yes the over the top cartoonish stuff and extreme bullying does happen, however at the same time homophobia can take place in a much more subtle form for people without even realizing they are actually being homophobic which makes it a lot more interesting to read for me. Extremely messy characters make me feel fucking ALIVE man, so yeah Enta is fabulous to me lol
 
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Starletka said:
As far as trans issues are concerned, I don't think there will ever be a character EVERYONE will be happy with. Whether it's in anime/manga or western media. There will always be something.
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I mean to be fair, I think that's true of most LGBT characters haha
It's very hard to really get into anything of depth without displeasing some people
That said, honestly probably Nitori (from Wandering Son) is the trans character with the most mass appeal
 
Claptrap said:
I mean to be fair, I think that's true of most LGBT characters haha
It's very hard to really get into anything of depth without displeasing some people
That said, honestly probably Nitori (from Wandering Son) is the trans character with the most mass appeal
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I keep telling myself I'm going to binge read the entire manga for wandering son, when I loved the anime a lot. Also Chizuru is such a baller:

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Gens said:
I keep telling myself I'm going to binge read the entire manga for wandering son, when I loved the anime a lot. Also Chizuru is such a baller:

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The manga is quite good! If you enjoy the anime you'll definitely enjoy the manga, because the manga is less confusing since the anime starts around the middle of the manga. The anime is definitely trying to give viewers a lot of content at once, so it ends up with some awkward pacing. Still, I thought the anime was beautiful regardless.

I have some issues with elements in the manga (and there's one big thing that bothers me), but overall I really liked it. Unfortunately it kind of seems to me that Aoi Hana and Wandering Son both had kind of rushed endings in 2013, for whatever reason. Not bad, but it felt sudden to me since I was following Wandering Son during publication. Surprised how long ago that is now.

Reminds me that I need to check out Shimura's new works too. Seems they're doing one about some older lesbians (nice) and two ongoing BL and a josei series. Wow, they're working on a lot right now.
 
Claptrap said:
Seems they're doing one about some older lesbians (nice)
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They're 35 years old! I nearly fainted of shock when I read the first volume! There are some things that make me uneasy about where they might go, but 35 year old leads grappling with the kinds of concerns you have in your mid 30s is amazing.

I swear it's because it runs in a josei mag and not a yuri mag, though I'm sure I'm oversimplifying an awful lot since there's only like two yuri mags.
 
Lets be honest... the pressing concern is what effects Qanxi being animated will have. And will TV be as brazen as Jump was with its colored spread page? Probs not...
 
I watched Umibe no Étranger and while I don't think it blew my mind in terms of BL I've seen, I still did enjoy it and no dub con is pretty great. That feels like a mythical unicorn these days to see more wholesome BL stories. It probably has one of the most tastefully handled sex scene I've seen too. Would recommend for BL fans.
 
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Gens said:
I watched Umibe no Étranger and while I don't think it blew my mind in terms of BL I've seen, I still did enjoy it and no dub con is pretty great. That feels like a mythical unicorn these days to see more wholesome BL stories. It probably has one of the most tastefully handled sex scene I've seen too. Would recommend for BL fans.
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I was actually pretty excited for this, but just watched it and was really disappointed. I guess it's just a prequel to the main story, but as prequels go, it didn't really interest me in further following it. The setup seemed pretty unnatural and the pacing was strange. Setting was pretty though. I feel like there's any number of other bl manga that would have had more value even as an ova episode, but it wasn't awful, I guess.
 
Akishima said:
I was actually pretty excited for this, but just watched it and was really disappointed. I guess it's just a prequel to the main story, but as prequels go, it didn't really interest me in further following it. The setup seemed pretty unnatural and the pacing was strange. Setting was pretty though. I feel like there's any number of other bl manga that would have had more value even as an ova episode, but it wasn't awful, I guess.
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Yeah the time-skip was pretty weird honestly, if there's one part I would really want to pick out. It's that.
 
I guess I'll say I really like Umibe no Etranger, both for exploring grief and for its exploration into homophobia. Though admittedly if I think some threads got kind of lost by the way they rearranged the material while others like Mio's grief about his mother were made stronger.

For example, regarding the homophobia Shun experienced its made clearer a lot earlier in the manga and thus we get where he's coming from. He even pulls a line, like... As far as not understanding loss, and feeling insulted when people ask about your family, I feel you're insulting me by not taking being 'gay ' seriously (maybe I'll follow up on this part a bit later because complicated)

But the point is, while I think Mio's arc is strengthened, Shun's is weakened a bit.

Honestly I think it's one of the better BL we have in anime format. I liked it, and the subjects introduced. I also like that it showcases how instead of a previous pattern of misogyny, BL has moved/is moving towards things like female costars who are also queer lol. Mlm/wlw solidarity.

That transition sequence for the years passing wasn't very good tho
 
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I just watched the Given movie, and it was pretty good. I'm hearing from people that it was rushed and they cut out a bunch of Mafuyu and Ritsuka scenes (which I did miss that) but it was always my understanding that it would focus more on the other couple who didn't get as much screen-time in the anime series, so I wasn't really disappointed. Plus, I haven't read the manga, so have nothing to compare it to other than personal preference. Regardless of its weaknesses, this is how you do BL- and we really need more shows like this one.

As an aside- I really liked the violinist and felt I probably shouldn't considering what we saw of him in the anime series, but this film made him more sympathetic than I was expecting. Made me sad how that relationship ended, but such is life.
 
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