Fate/stay night

Oh... I assumed you'd watched it all already, telling you that Archer was actually Shiro was probably quite a spoiler lol

Just keep watching, we can't really say anything without spoiling it for you.
 
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That's what she said.
 
Duomaxwe said:
Oh... I assumed you'd watched it all already, telling you that Archer was actually Shiro was probably quite a spoiler lol

Just keep watching, we can't really say anything without spoiling it for you.
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It has been like 6 months since I watched FSN, so refreash my memory as to how Archer is Shiro? I don't remember anything in the anime saying that, or metaphorically saying it. Did I miss something or is it in a novel or something?
 
Okay, so I finally forced myself to finish off this series.
And I don't know how Shirou was archer, either. It just seemed to me he got one of Archer's swords to stab that priest and traced Avalon.

Anyway, that's beside the point. The beginning of the anime was really slow, and very very annoying. Shirou has to be the most annoying, naive, and clueless male lead that I have ever watched. Maybe because I've never really seen a harem anime before, but the level of stupidity coming from Shirou was over 9000. His nasal cries hurt my ears, and his whimsical philosophy on life bugged me to no end. And I seriously laughed at his hypocritical nature. He calls other people selfish without looking at himself in the mirror. He wants to destroy the Holy Grail, stop the war, have Saber stay with him, and not have Saber go back to her own time to live her OWN life, among other things; that sounds pretty selfish to me. Other than Shirou and Saber, I liked Rin's, Lancer's and Archer's character. Rin seemed like a tomboyish smart alec to me, Archer seemed like the 'cool' servant, and Lancer was just bad ass. I couldn't care less if the other characters died.

The story itself doesn't make much sense. Who created the holy grail? Why do the other characters not remember the explosion from the last war? Why was Caster's master so unbelievably strong if he was not a master? Why was there a Saber look-alike in that knight's armour whom Saber killed? Gilgamesh claims to be a king when the entire world was connected...no, Gilgamesh was a Sumerian king, I think Genghis Khan or Alexander would've been a better character instead of Gilgamesh. Also, why was Saber lying beside the trunk of a tree at the end of the series, and who is this Lady of the Lake (yes, I know how the Arthurian legend goes, but they don't explain ANYTHING in the anime which is just bad storytelling, and for some reason I doubt many Japanese people would know about the story of King Arthur. They would rather know about the myth of their own sword, the Kusanagi). I don't understand who made the Holy Grail or how the war started in the first place.

Anyway, by the end of the series, all of the characters that actually had a personality became diminutive in nature to what they were in the beginning of the series. They lost all their individual character quirks and they all seemed to resemble each other. The only person that had a positive change was Saber, who turned from some sort of automaton to a character with emotions and feelings. Even so I have a really hard time swallowing that the fabled King Arthur of Camelot has fallen in love with some teenage boy. The anime just turned into another stereotypical 'if I believe in myself enough, I can do anything!' type of anime.

Another bone to pick is that the music in this anime was FUCKING ANNOYING. Holy crap, they played that tune for the previews as the background music every time. The only time I can remember variation was when Gilgamesh was introduced. The opening theme songs were alright, though, as was the ending theme song.

I liked the animation quality, but the way the producers wanted to make the eyes I didn't like. It looked weird.

That's all I have to say to this anime. It's another one of your mediocre shounen anime that I wouldn't recommend to anyone that is looking for something deeper and different and that requires some thinking to understand and interpret.

Overall, I'd give it a 6/10. The only reason it didn't get a 3 or 4 is because the last episode saved it from an irreversible fall into a dark pit of mediocrity and obscurity.
 
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Shiro never traced Avalon, Avalon was inside his body. (He did trace Caliburn though, to destroy Hercules).

Shiro is Archer, Shiro was accepted into the Tavern of Heroes for being a Hero of Justice, the Tavern of Heroes of course existing outside of time, so even though Shrio hadn't became a Hero yet, his Heroic Spirit was still able to be summoned in the fifth Holy Grail War. It was actually Shiro who went back in time, and manipulated events to ensure that Rin summoned Archer for reasons I won't say.

All this is explained in the visual novel, however I've never actually read the Visual Novel (yet) I've read it from other sources and heard it from people.

Caster's master was "strong" because Caster cast strength enhancing spells upon him.

Saber was lying on a tree at the end of the series, because that was clearly after the battle with her son where she had been dealt a fatal blow and was dying. (King Arthur) The general reason for not explaining it is for people to find out on their own, King Arthur's legend is a separate entity to FS/N altogether. Besides, it most likely is expanded upon in the visual novel.

So overall I have to say, this is a great anime, that WILL require hours of thought provoking questions, research, and eventually advancement onto the visual novel to even break the surface of this mind boggling, epically created anime feat, 9/10.
 
Duomaxwe said:
Shiro never traced Avalon, Avalon was inside his body. (He did trace Caliburn though, to destroy Hercules).

Shiro is Archer, Shiro was accepted into the Tavern of Heroes for being a Hero of Justice, the Tavern of Heroes of course existing outside of time, so even though Shrio hadn't became a Hero yet, his Heroic Spirit was still able to be summoned in the fifth Holy Grail War. It was actually Shiro who went back in time, and manipulated events to ensure that Rin summoned Archer for reasons I won't say.

All this is explained in the visual novel, however I've never actually read the Visual Novel (yet) I've read it from other sources and heard it from people.

Caster's master was "strong" because Caster cast strength enhancing spells upon him.

Saber was lying on a tree at the end of the series, because that was clearly after the battle with her son where she had been dealt a fatal blow and was dying. (King Arthur) The general reason for not explaining it is for people to find out on their own, King Arthur's legend is a separate entity to FS/N altogether. Besides, it most likely is expanded upon in the visual novel.

So overall I have to say, this is a great anime, that WILL require hours of thought provoking questions, research, and eventually advancement onto the visual novel to even break the surface of this mind boggling, epically created anime feat, 9/10.
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An anime shouldn't rely on other sources to explain important plot sequences in the series. It should be a stand-alone guide to itself. I don't think the anime forcing you to read about the legend of King Arthur is thought-provoking at all. It just makes it confusing as to what the hell is going on. The characters are hugely dull, static, and one-dimensional. I know how some anime (the most recent being Code Geass, where the Tower of Babel is destroyed by Zero) employ certain names or symbols that mean something else, but the anime runs just as smoothly if you do not understand the meaning behind those names or symbols. That's what an anime should do; it should make connections to literature, history, philosophy, etc without sacrificing the comprehension of a storyline. Luckily for me, I had to study the legend of King Arthur in its entirety in a first-year English course, but I can't help but wonder how other people manage to get through this anime without knowing about the legend and still praising it. It doesn't make much sense to me.

Evidently, they left a lot of stuff out in the anime that may be found in the visual novel, but for a person who just wants to watch an anime, that's not acceptable. There are many questions left unanswered, but these are not thought-provoking questions, they're plotholes. I guess we have different ideas on what an anime should be.

Also, does not Shirou escape the sludge ball thing by tracing Avalon? That's how I saw it.
 
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Yeah well, I don't wanna get into a debate.

Though anyone I know, myself included, who have seen this anime have only praised it, and while it leaves many things unanswered I found it enjoyable to research them on my own.
 
Not the most religious person in the world, in fact, I dislike it, but wasn't the holy grail the cup Jesus used during the last supper? So, does that kinda answer your question on how/who made the holy grail? Not really? Meh, didn't answer the question for me either.

Unfortunately for me, after watching this show, I thought back on it, thought of who could be who, but never really dived deep into it. I can really see how reading the novels can give you a bigger understanding into this universe, and gives you deeper meaning to characters, shame i didn't read these posts back when I finished the series.
 
^ They're two different Holy Grails, I think it actually even said in the anime that it wasn't Jesus' Holy Grail.

I've had the visual novel on my computer for months, but it's a bitch to get to work, so I decided to wait until I finished college to start.

Which I have done now, I'll probably start reading it in a few days.
 
Assassin evaperated because he didn't have very much mana, the reason for this is because his master was Caster, another servant, who was unable to supply him with enough mana to function properly.
 
Pshoosh! Another thread revival!

Alright, I'll just paste the same I posted on another forum that I hang around. I'll warn already; since I'm too lazy to separate what could be a spoiler and what not, I'll just put it all in spoiler.
I'd prefer to start off with the OP & ED of series. At first I thought neither of the two OP the series had during those 24 episodes fit for it, at all. But after going through the OPs, both of them about 10 times..well, you could say I started liking them, think of they are listen able after all. Both are going to end up in my playlist in my winamp soon.

Then, the characters.
I loved Saber. To the max, you could say. Everything about her was just so love able.
I seem to have some sort of fixation on strong leading female characters. Well, on strong female characters in general.. I really don't know what else I could say of her. She's the kind of character I like.

Then, the a lot hate and probably less love gotten character, Shirou.
**Contains minor to major spoilers**
First, the look. At first episode as I saw the look of this character, I disliked it. There's just something in his eyes & hair that just doesn't fit it, or look "normal" for that matter.

At the first three-five episodes, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The main male character had just been killed, assaulted, injured, you name it, too many times to be still alive. I couldn't help but to feel that this guy got some sort of "unbeatable character syndrome" where the main character can take as much punishment as needed, without getting killed for good. Well, I got past that part and he was killed, assaulted, injured, you name it dozens of times again. Still alive. It was indeed starting to annoy me. I don't really know how to feel of the explanation they gave us as of why Shirou survived all that damage.
But what comes to his personality, I think I can relate, more or less to him. Despite what you might see me talking in these forums, I do care more of others over myself. I could see myself thinking and acting very much like Shirou. Well, minus the incredible durability of the character and we're about equal. There's probably more I could talk of him, but to avoid making "wall of text" I'll leave it here...

Then, the other characters..
I was quite disappointed to the role they had given Lancer & Archer. I hoped to see more of them. I'm still quite curious of the relationship between Sakura & Tosaka. I'm not sure if it's safe to say that they were "just" friends or something more. Gah.

Then, the plot..
Too many twists. To put it short, well in my opinion at least. I probably missed some of the more "complex talk" due watching the series in middle of night in half sleep, but from what I understood; They fight to grant one wish with cost of destruction. Not a single wish had been granted? and none will be granted due to what Saber did.
But since the little background I knew of this series before I started watching it, I did not mainly focus on what I just mentioned above, but the relationship between Shirou & Saber. I think it was just cute, how Saber is totally unaware of Shirou's feelings during the first half of the series. That's just probably affected by the way she thinks of herself.
The ending was rather sad. Much like in Tsukihime, the two can't be together. Here for them to be together it would of cost lives of innocent people and neither of the two could accept that. Like Shirou said, he would of been better off being ignorant of his own feelings.

I probably left some of the areas mentioned in the series out, but I can't remember it all right now, let alone write it! No one would read it!
So, in overall, I'd say this anime is an average to slightly above average. It's not crap or worst I've seen, but I've seen better ones too. Above average comes from the story and from the ending. Even thought it's sad and bitter-ish, I found it suitable for the show itself. I'm pretty glad they didn't force any "hey let's have sex" scene, like they had done in Tsukihime.

To put it short, I liked the show. But I don't think it was as good as their previous work, Tsukihime. I still enjoyed the time I spent with the series.
 
Fuyuzuki said:
Pshoosh! Another thread revival!

Alright, I'll just paste the same I posted on another forum that I hang around. I'll warn already; since I'm too lazy to separate what could be a spoiler and what not, I'll just put it all in spoiler.
I'd prefer to start off with the OP & ED of series. At first I thought neither of the two OP the series had during those 24 episodes fit for it, at all. But after going through the OPs, both of them about 10 times..well, you could say I started liking them, think of they are listen able after all. Both are going to end up in my playlist in my winamp soon.

Then, the characters.
I loved Saber. To the max, you could say. Everything about her was just so love able.
I seem to have some sort of fixation on strong leading female characters. Well, on strong female characters in general.. I really don't know what else I could say of her. She's the kind of character I like.

Then, the a lot hate and probably less love gotten character, Shirou.
**Contains minor to major spoilers**
First, the look. At first episode as I saw the look of this character, I disliked it. There's just something in his eyes & hair that just doesn't fit it, or look "normal" for that matter.

At the first three-five episodes, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The main male character had just been killed, assaulted, injured, you name it, too many times to be still alive. I couldn't help but to feel that this guy got some sort of "unbeatable character syndrome" where the main character can take as much punishment as needed, without getting killed for good. Well, I got past that part and he was killed, assaulted, injured, you name it dozens of times again. Still alive. It was indeed starting to annoy me. I don't really know how to feel of the explanation they gave us as of why Shirou survived all that damage.
But what comes to his personality, I think I can relate, more or less to him. Despite what you might see me talking in these forums, I do care more of others over myself. I could see myself thinking and acting very much like Shirou. Well, minus the incredible durability of the character and we're about equal. There's probably more I could talk of him, but to avoid making "wall of text" I'll leave it here...

Then, the other characters..
I was quite disappointed to the role they had given Lancer & Archer. I hoped to see more of them. I'm still quite curious of the relationship between Sakura & Tosaka. I'm not sure if it's safe to say that they were "just" friends or something more. Gah.

Then, the plot..
Too many twists. To put it short, well in my opinion at least. I probably missed some of the more "complex talk" due watching the series in middle of night in half sleep, but from what I understood; They fight to grant one wish with cost of destruction. Not a single wish had been granted? and none will be granted due to what Saber did.
But since the little background I knew of this series before I started watching it, I did not mainly focus on what I just mentioned above, but the relationship between Shirou & Saber. I think it was just cute, how Saber is totally unaware of Shirou's feelings during the first half of the series. That's just probably affected by the way she thinks of herself.
The ending was rather sad. Much like in Tsukihime, the two can't be together. Here for them to be together it would of cost lives of innocent people and neither of the two could accept that. Like Shirou said, he would of been better off being ignorant of his own feelings.

I probably left some of the areas mentioned in the series out, but I can't remember it all right now, let alone write it! No one would read it!
So, in overall, I'd say this anime is an average to slightly above average. It's not crap or worst I've seen, but I've seen better ones too. Above average comes from the story and from the ending. Even thought it's sad and bitter-ish, I found it suitable for the show itself. I'm pretty glad they didn't force any "hey let's have sex" scene, like they had done in Tsukihime.

To put it short, I liked the show. But I don't think it was as good as their previous work, Tsukihime. I still enjoyed the time I spent with the series.
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i will put it short, i havent read ur whole post (not going to hurt ma eyes u know^^) but i totally agree in what ive read and i also liked the show, but probably more for its art than everything else

the story was nice and all but hell were there many plot twists, i still can remember ma headaches i had after watching this show (has been a year since ive watched it), especially the end which i didnt get at all, i mean it was sad and all but even more confusing (actually i was depressive for few days and in a really bad mood, shirou and saber not being together at the end was just too much to take for me) :@_@::@_@:

i remember that i ended up rewatching the end about 4 times, 3 times with sub and ones with dub and in the end i finally understood shirous reason for letting saber go lol :baka:

anyway, tbh i expected more from this anime as i became interested in it by watching a AMV in which shirou got hit pretty bad by berserker?!?, this scene seemed to be pretty intense and so i hoped for some bloody fights when watching, but unfortunatly the said scene was a stand-alone

well im still confused about some story parts here and there, good thing i cant seem to remember them anymore :drink: (the plot twists that is)

guess i will leave it at this as talking more about this will resolve in me wanting to read the manga which hasnt been fully scanlated and thus wouldnt pay off at all

great show btw, but definetly too confusing for a rewatch or the like, i also dont want to deal with the depressive feeling i got last time

PS: maybe the depressive feeling at the end is what makes this show so special??? oO
 
PS: maybe the depressive feeling at the end is what makes this show so special??? oO
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I don't know, but I have a "thing" or guess you could say that I have a tendency of "feeling too much into the characters". I was "sad" and pretty much spacing out for couple days after I had finished Kimi ga nozomu eien.

Somehow I can't help but to get quite emotional on stories where two who loves each other can't be together or are just separated.
 
Fuyuzuki said:
I don't know, but I have a "thing" or guess you could say that I have a tendency of "feeling too much into the characters". I was "sad" and pretty much spacing out for couple days after I had finished Kimi ga nozomu eien.
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I was like that when i watched my first romance, Canvas 2. Not even about the ending, just more or less the fact that it ended. I still get like that every now and then when I finish a great series, but Canvas2 was the only one were I was like that for a couple days.
 
I finished this one rather quickly, because it was so intense and interesting that I couldn't stop wanting another episode after I finished one. It's an amazing story, with great plot, good graphics and wonderful soundtrack. I liked the first opening, "Disillusion", so much, that I listened to it many days in a row without stopping.
My favourite character is Archer, altough I admire Saber for her kindness and courage. But Rin and Archer are the combo I liked best, they were a great team and I liked that they fought with all their powers until the end.
 
nezumichan said:
I finished this one rather quickly, because it was so intense and interesting that I couldn't stop wanting another episode after I finished one. It's an amazing story, with great plot, good graphics and wonderful soundtrack. I liked the first opening, "Disillusion", so much, that I listened to it many days in a row without stopping.
My favourite character is Archer, altough I admire Saber for her kindness and courage. But Rin and Archer are the combo I liked best, they were a great team and I liked that they fought with all their powers until the end.
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i totally agree... it was sad that rin has to lose archer so early
 
This one had it's good moments, and overall it was a nice anime, but the main guy (been a while since I watched this and he wasn't memorable enough :P) dragged everything down tbh. He's so dumb that it made me want hit his face with a shovel until it stops being funny >.<

But about the actual point of the topic, It's a tough choice between Rider and Archer. And I won't choose either, let's give em both the 1st place :p
 
If you guys can get a hold of it and apply the translation patch from mirror moon, I really recommend trying out the fate stay night visual novel. It really goes into detail on the scenes that left you with more questions in the anime, as well as having 2 other alternate routes which change the story completely (and I mean completely, good guys become bad guys, bad guys become good guys, its awesome). My favourite arc in it goes into great detail about the history of archer and his relationship to Shiro (it will blow your mind if you don't know the secret between those two, not gonna spoil it here, though some wiki searching will do you some good if that's what you want to do).

As well it really develops Shiro more as a main character who can accomplish something with some badassness thrown in there rather than some goody goody that sits on the sidelines while trying to protect his girl.

I can't recommend it enough, it's even better than the anime was and it really cures you of that bummed out feeling you get at the end of the anime when you play the alternate routes which have much more of an epic feel to them than bitter sweetness.
 
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