RWBY: The Not Anime Anime Thread

[interregnum]

V7E13

Spoiler: A Song of Ice and Fire

Spoiler: Preface

"My life doesn't matter!"

"I disagree."

Spoiler: Bulk of response

One of my favorite things about Infinity War--and I have A LOT of favorite things about Infinity War--is how Tony Stark was right. The whole time. Not in every single instance of everything he did, but in how he knew the danger was coming and that someone had to do something to stop it, if it was at all possible.

Ironwood has spent every moment after the fall of Beacon doing the same thing: preparing for a danger only he knew (well, knew about, anyway)--and making the similar mistake-but-maybe-not of trusting only himself to do it. And, as in Infinity War, the danger has shown up...and the only one who was ready to deal with it in any capacity was Ironwood/Team Ironwood.

Was ol' James right in every single instance of everything he did? Certainly not. BUT--he...was...right.

I actually cheered, when he shot Oscar. Not because shooting Oscar was good or necessary or moral, but because it--narratively--had to be done. The "good guys" were wrong--and, even in the face of absolute doom, they' were still wrong. And their being wrong handed one heck of a victory to the actual bad guys. It was a moment that made sense, both as a story beat and as one of those philosophical choices I keep harping about.

Because Oscar, like the rest of the "good guy" brigade, doubled down on being wrong (with Ren basically being the only one to doubt (as he had, earlier in the season, before the show tucked it away for what looked like forever) that they were ever right to begin with). He approached Ironwood with the hope that they could find that storied "third option" that all protagonists manage to find...and he thought the key to doing do was to tell Ironwood that he was wrong. Because "morality" or whatever. I mean...what the hell did he think was going to happen? He's lucky all he got was shot!

Anyway--I loved that scene, and I loved Ironwood's little speech: "All excellent philosophical points--THAT WON'T MATTER IF SALEM WINS." It's the exact conflict that should have been underlying every part of the season, pointed and succinct. There's no room for "soft" choices, in the face of Evil--but "tough" choices don't always have to be "tragic" choices.

And now...I don't know if sending Atlas into the stratosphere would even work, given Salem's entrance, but...sitting around sure as hell isn't going to work.

Good work, "good guys."

That said...I'm not sure the writers know that the "good guys" screwed up. That EVERYONE was wrong, in the end--but that the "good guys" were probably the wrongest. 'Cus people looked sad, but I don't know that anyone but Ren thinks they did anything wrong.

Penny becoming the Winter Maiden is kinda bull****, but they went to great lengths to contrive that pieces of her "dad's" soul or whatever are stuffed in her, so...I guess they can get away with it. I hate it, I don't think it's going to work out the way they want it to, but I can't say they didn't take pains to establish that it could happen.

Monstro

10 points for making a reference I immediately understand--but mostly because it warms my heart to know you, in your comparative youth, actually know who that is.

Also: that's exactly what I thought, when I saw her.

 

[MistLiigh]

Spoiler

As for Volume 3 part 2 I feel like that won't happen until Volume 9,

Holy fuck I hope you're wrong about that... As @interregnum and I discussed previously, the tension curve has already been out of whack for way too long, and the show is desperately in need of a way to re-align the feeling of stakes with their reality. Hopefully Salem's full assault on Atlas will get there, but I'm still frustrated that we needed to claw back up to a place that we should have been long ago... Sorry, I am probably being a bit of an angry grognard, but idk... this sort of thing just bugs me, especially when I had such high hopes for the series at one time.

you, in your comparative youth

That's something I haven't felt much recently... I've been surrounded mostly by kids in that 18-20 range lately and they keep making me feel like an old fart...

 

[Ebonyslayer]

Thoughts on RWBY Vol. 7 finale:

Spoiler

Even though Cinder failed to get the Winter maiden, its sort of a big deal that she ended up with the lamp. Now who knows what wish she'll choose to make, but I bet Neapolitan was unhappy she didn't get a thank you. It was a thought that the Winter Maiden would pass on her powers considering her old age, but I wasn't expecting Penny to inherit them. She needed that boost to take on Cinder, considering how she was a terror in the skies. So now Penny has become a big deal in the story and in what's to come, especially with the Pinochio references.

Oscar is getting to use more of Oz's powers, and it looks like Salem's invasion is just starting. I don't think the cliffhangers are really bothering me, partly because it was last year I got into RWBY, and I know the creators are going to come out with another season. So I guess overall I'm just really patient, and there are plenty of things to hold me over till more RWBY comes out.

Even with the opposing groups, I love how the characters are facing fear and overcoming it, sort of in theme with the credits song. I wish there was a final cutscene, but overall I feel pretty happy with the season, even if the wrap-up was less than perfect.

 

[Vega]

Thoughts on RWBY Vol. 7 finale:

Spoiler

Even though Cinder failed to get the Winter maiden, its sort of a big deal that she ended up with the lamp. Now who knows what wish she'll choose to make, but I bet Neapolitan was unhappy she didn't get a thank you. It was a thought that the Winter Maiden would pass on her powers considering her old age, but I wasn't expecting Penny to inherit them. She needed that boost to take on Cinder, considering how she was a terror in the skies. So now Penny has become a big deal in the story and in what's to come.

Oscar is getting to use more of Oz's powers, and it looks like Salem's invasion is just starting. I don't think the cliffhangers are really bothering me, partly because it was last year I got into RWBY, and I know the creators are going to come out with another season. So I guess overall I'm just really patient, and there are plenty of things to hold me over till more RWBY comes out.

Even with the opposing groups, I love how the characters are facing fear and overcoming it, sort of in theme with the credits song. I wish there was a final cutscene, but overall I feel pretty happy with the season, even if the wrap-up was less than perfect.

Spoiler

I wonder if Neo is going to be so fed up with Cinder that she'll wind up turning on her and siding with the heroes later on. I could definitely tell from the look on Neo's face that she wasn't happy with the lack of acknowledgement and I feel like that's not the last time something like this is gonna happen. Cinder just sees her as a tool and this way of thinking will likely bite her in the ass later.

I'm also hoping that next season we get to learn more about the maidens, Penny being with the main group now is a great opportunity for that.

 

[Vega]

Almost forgot Volume 8 started today!

V8C1

Spoiler

That was the most depressing RWBY episode I've ever watched. Slow (no fights) but good, and I am nervous as hell after seeing Ironwood just straight up shoot someone for no reason other than complaining at him...

This is definitely gonna get dark, I have a bad feeling SOMEONE will probably wind up dead/completely fucked by the end of this (probably the latter, knowing how this show is) Probably won't be any of the main four, but if they decide to go full on stupid and kill off Yang I'm gonna riot. I doubt they'd do that though.

Pretty good start so far. Trying to keep my expectations in check after how the later parts of Volume 7 turned out, but so far I'm enjoying this.

 

[MistLiigh]

V8C1:

Spoiler

Well... that wasn't quite what I expected and hoped for... So, I guess Salem and her Monstro warship are just kinda... chillin' out in the distance being menacing? Is this like, basting the fear turkey for extra flavor before she crushes it? Tortured metaphors aside, I was kind of expecting a more explosive start, V3 part 2 if you will...

Alright, well... Ironwood has officially lost the last of his chill. Which is impressive, considering Atlas is in the middle of a frozen tundra. Just straight up murdered an elected representative for questioning him? I think you skipped like 8 steps at minimum there James... Not seeing a clear path to redemption for Mr. Tinman.

 

[Vega]

V8C1:

Spoiler

Well... that wasn't quite what I expected and hoped for... So, I guess Salem and her Monstro warship are just kinda... chillin' out in the distance being menacing? Is this like, basting the fear turkey for extra flavor before she crushes it? Tortured metaphors aside, I was kind of expecting a more explosive start, V3 part 2 if you will...

Alright, well... Ironwood has officially lost the last of his chill. Which is impressive, considering Atlas is in the middle of a frozen tundra. Just straight up murdered an elected representative for questioning him? I think you skipped like 8 steps at minimum there James... Not seeing a clear path to redemption for Mr. Tinman.

Spoiler

This wasn't what I expected either. Usually when I see RWBY fans going "OH MY GOD THIS IS GONNA BE SO DARK OH FUCK" I'm the one that's like "maybe slightly but not quite that much considering how the last few seasons have been" but after that episode it's like "...fuck."

My guess is they're going to have a lot of buildup and then things might get crazy if this will be as dark as what that first episode and the opening suggest. The new opening came across as extremely edgy so I'm more than a bit nervous now. Usually when I start a new volume of RWBY I'm really happy to see these characters again, this time all the characters looked so nervous and sad throughout most if not all of the episode to the point where it hurt.

As far as plot goes I really really hope Penny has zero intention of going back to Ironwood. I was thinking about that and I realized that if she did that Ironwood is probably going to kill her so that Winter gets the Maiden power....

On a semi-related note, it's kinda funny looking back on some people's reactions to the early work in progress volume 8 footage released a while back. Some thought it looked "too happy" cause it was a clip of Yang having a fun time on a hoverbike. The way I see it now we're probably gonna need a scene or two like that to balance things out.

 

[MistLiigh]

V8C2:

Spoiler

Okay, that new Grimm... that might be the shot in the arm this sorely needs. Maybe. I hope. Because holy shit, that is a whole new level of dangerous.

 

[Vega]

Since I'm here I'll post about the new episode real quick

V8C2:

Spoiler

I liked it but I have one small issue. When Oscar is getting his ass kicked it looked like everyone just stood there for a good minute and it was honestly a bit strange. I get that the Grimm was using Oscar as a shield when the others did try to attack it but I don't get why they didn't try to attack sooner. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. In any case it's not a big issue. I do like the various implications raised and the idea that Qrow might be going after Ironwood or Tyrian next. My guess is that we're gonna be seeing the results of that and possibly Oscar and Ozma's souls being forcibly separated cause I'm convinced Salem is gonna pull a sort of yandere move (why else would she capture him alive knowing Ozma can't be killed?), and pulling said move while Ozma is still inhabiting what I'm pretty sure is a child's body would likely be more than a little problematic.

Pretty solid episode. The few lighthearted comedic bits that were here too really helped lighten the mood a bit.

 

[Vega]

V8C3:

Spoiler

I liked this more than last week's episode, but it's feeling like they can't go 5 minutes without injecting something that's bound to be really depressing. Last week we had Oscar getting kidnapped, now we have "Penny is probably gonna get hacked and maybe even killed off again". I know Volume 3 got dark too but that was more in the last few episodes. At least there's some lighthearted moments here and there this week too to help balance it out, but I actually find myself dreading next week a bit not because of anything quality-related but because each episode so far is just making me depressed. I'm sure it won't stay like this forever since there's still going to be Volume 9 and for all we know that might ease up a bit. Like I said before I don't watch RWBY to be sad. Maybe I'll look at it differently in the future when Volume 9 is out but for now I just have really mixed feelings and that's all cause of the tone.

With how depressing this volume has been I'm actually considering dropping this for now. I know we're only three episodes in but this darker tone sucks and I can't tell if it's the episodes themselves (the tone, not the overall quality) or the waiting in between episodes that's making it worse for me.

Edit: I keep getting angrier the more I think about this so yeah, dropping this for now. Unless things turn around later whether that's later in this season, or later in the series, this isn't worth it. Not when it makes me this mad and depressed.

 

[MistLiigh]

V8C13:

Spoiler

Oh shit...

Spoiler: No seriously, massive spoilers

Did this show just become RWB? O_O It's not entirely clear what happens when you fall off, but they made it clear it wouldn't be good, and of course someone was going to fall but... wow, I didn't think it would be a title character. Of course, the door is still open for her to pop back up one day and be like "oh, yeah, it kinda dropped me in the middle of absolutely fucking nowhere for awhile, looked kinda dicey for a bit but I'm back now bitches," or have her stuck in some terror dimension with a "slim" hope of escape/rescue or something, but... she could also be straight up atomized and permanently dead... holy shit...

I shudder to imagine the reaction from Bumblebee shippers...

Alright, these last couple episodes, I'm starting to come back around to the series a bit... let's see if they can keep it up.

 

[Vega]

V8C3:

Spoiler

I liked this more than last week's episode, but it's feeling like they can't go 5 minutes without injecting something that's bound to be really depressing. Last week we had Oscar getting kidnapped, now we have "Penny is probably gonna get hacked and maybe even killed off again". I know Volume 3 got dark too but that was more in the last few episodes. At least there's some lighthearted moments here and there this week too to help balance it out, but I actually find myself dreading next week a bit not because of anything quality-related but because each episode so far is just making me depressed. I'm sure it won't stay like this forever since there's still going to be Volume 9 and for all we know that might ease up a bit. Like I said before I don't watch RWBY to be sad. Maybe I'll look at it differently in the future when Volume 9 is out but for now I just have really mixed feelings and that's all cause of the tone.

With how depressing this volume has been I'm actually considering dropping this for now. I know we're only three episodes in but this darker tone sucks and I can't tell if it's the episodes themselves (the tone, not the overall quality) or the waiting in between episodes that's making it worse for me.

Edit: I keep getting angrier the more I think about this so yeah, dropping this for now. Unless things turn around later whether that's later in this season, or later in the series, this isn't worth it. Not when it makes me this mad and depressed.

As a bit of an update to this since @MistLiigh liked my post here (not quoting your post since that'll cause me to see unmarked spoilers in this text box xD) and it's been a while, I do plan on picking this back up once the volume ends next week. My best friend is absolutely loving this season (even saying it's better than volume 6, which I might not 100 percent agree with so I'm keeping my expectations in check to avoid a repeat of what happened when I was first watching this when it premiered)

Looking back, I really was not in the right frame of mind when I was watching this and might not have been 100 percent fair to it as a result. I'm doing a bit better though and my friend's hype is making me really want to get back into it. Maybe not having to deal with the added stress of weekly cliffhangers will help a bit with watching it too and when reattempting it I'll know what to expect so it won't blindside me (as in the tone itself. I know a few spoilers that I'm already starting to forget and some things out of context but I'm trying to avoid spoilers like the plague).

 

[interregnum]

Oh--I forgot this was a thing.

Spoiler: From whenever up through 8.13

The things I didn't like in the last couple of seasons are still there, in some measure, but I feel like it's both been there less and/or tweaked some of the things that didn't work previously. So, all in all, I'm having a better time this go-round than I have recently.

Ep 13 in particular was probably the best we've gotten in a loooong time, with probably the right balance of "protagonist powers" contrivance and Game of Thrones-y "realism," with our heroes really coming to terms with the fact that they don't know what the f*** they're doing--which is long overdue.

That said, we're probably past the point where this feels like we're treading water with these struggles more than building towards a storytelling climax.

Did this show just become RWB?

I hope so. And not just because I am--at best--neutral on Yang. I just think it would be way more interesting if she died, rather than just got shoved into a pocket dimension until Blake cries her back into existence.

Spoiler

I shudder to imagine the reaction from Bumblebee shippers...

Which is why she'll be back. The creators of this show are as interested in story as they are in feeding the tumblr folks. And they just had Yang and Blake make out(-ish) in the last episode.

...is tumblr still a thing? Or did it realize too late that 98% of its traffic was SFM porn?

Similarly, I hope we're about to lose Winter--who is my third-favorite character--as well, because it'd be way more interesting for Ironwood to be on the board than Winter.

That said, I cannot imagine Yang getting such an inauspicious sendoff. Pyrrha's death is going to be hard to top, not just in terms of shock value but also in terms of how it managed to also be properly set up (not foreshadow, but give emotional setup for, with her putting Jaune in the locker) and utterly relevant to the story in that moment. (And, of course, we still feel the effects of it...though not enough, frankly, for my tastes--but whatever.) So, for Yang to meet her end so offhandedly is either a storytelling risk that has very much missed the mark or a misdirect.

Looking back, I really was not in the right frame of mind when I was watching this and might not have been 100 percent fair to it as a result.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, honestly. We're not only a long way away from the tone of the start of the show, there's been a mess of mistakes in the last couple of volumes that should put people off.

 

[MistLiigh]

Oh--I forgot this was a thing.

Spoiler: From whenever up through 8.13

The things I didn't like in the last couple of seasons are still there, in some measure, but I feel like it's both been there less and/or tweaked some of the things that didn't work previously. So, all in all, I'm having a better time this go-round than I have recently.

Ep 13 in particular was probably the best we've gotten in a loooong time, with probably the right balance of "protagonist powers" contrivance and Game of Thrones-y "realism," with our heroes really coming to terms with the fact that they don't know what the f*** they're doing--which is long overdue.

That said, we're probably past the point where this feels like we're treading water with these struggles more than building towards a storytelling climax.


I hope so. And not just because I am--at best--neutral on Yang. I just think it would be way more interesting if she died, rather than just got shoved into a pocket dimension until Blake cries her back into existence.

Spoiler

Which is why she'll be back. The creators of this show are as interested in story as they are in feeding the tumblr folks. And they just had Yang and Blake make out(-ish) in the last episode.

...is tumblr still a thing? Or did it realize too late that 98% of its traffic was SFM porn?

Similarly, I hope we're about to lose Winter--who is my third-favorite character--as well, because it'd be way more interesting for Ironwood to be on the board than Winter.

That said, I cannot imagine Yang getting such an inauspicious sendoff. Pyrrha's death is going to be hard to top, not just in terms of shock value but also in terms of how it managed to also be properly set up (not foreshadow, but give emotional setup for, with her putting Jaune in the locker) and utterly relevant to the story in that moment. (And, of course, we still feel the effects of it...though not enough, frankly, for my tastes--but whatever.) So, for Yang to meet her end so offhandedly is either a storytelling risk that has very much missed the mark or a misdirect.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, honestly. We're not only a long way away from the tone of the start of the show, there's been a mess of mistakes in the last couple of volumes that should put people off.

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm very much with you on most of what you said here (though I'd put Yang a little higher, above the show average at least). It's done a lot more for me on that "in the moment" level recently, but when I look back after cooling off it's still hard to ignore some of the issues, even if it's getting better.

I'd also prefer Yang to be actually dead but don't think it was given the fanfare a real title-character death would deserve and kind of necessitate, so... idk, we'll see. As we've kinda tag-team pointed out, this is far less definitive and impactfully done than the loss of Pyrrha (I'd also really love to see that still affecting things more than it is, she really deserves better), with too much uncertainty and not enough emotional build-up. And let's face it, we're at a critical juncture (well, okay, we passed it a while back and finally made it back around through the detour) where the story needs some major and impactful losses. Winter would be another great candidate, because yeah, I think that is a better way to take Ironwood's descent into darkness and the series in general. It would be nice to see him either stick around and take it to an even higher level of human monster as he finds himself with nothing left to lose, or even to see him fall into Salem's hands to get his just desserts while simultaneously being twisted into a new and threatening terror.

Speaking of unimpactful deaths and Ironwood's descent... I guess Jacques Schnee just became a scorch mark on that cell floor. Which, I mean... guy was a shitbag, but damn, that's a little excessive. Can't say I'm sad about it though, he wasn't exactly an endearing character...

But yeah... the finale next week seems like it's on track to be the best season finale the series has had for awhile, but it also has some big shoes to fill when we compare it to the last time a kingdom was truly about to fall. Though, points for making it a more literal fall I suppose...

 

[interregnum]

Spoiler: MIST-IFYING

I'd also prefer Yang to be actually dead but don't think it was given the fanfare a real title-character death would deserve and kind of necessitate, so... idk, we'll see.

I suppose she would have died saving Ruby, which is not insignificant, and Blake failed to save her once she fell, which is also not insignificant (leaving my girl Weiss as the lone pillar of stability in the aftermath! Woo!)...but, again, it feels like an anti-climactic way for one of the Avengers to go out. It'd be like having Black Widow fall to her death for no discernable reason.

Cough.

Seriously, though, the other thing that strikes me about it is that Neo would end up being the one to kill her...which doesn't seem like something they'd want for her character. (Despite her undoubtedly having killed at least some of the faceless masses we've seen her fight previously.)

Then again, what do I know.

I guess Jacques Schnee just became a scorch mark on that cell floor. Which, I mean... guy was a shitbag, but damn, that's a little excessive.

Yeah, that was a surprise. Though also not really, considering how much he f***ed up Ironwood's plans. Y'know, since he collaborated with Salem and all. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and all that.

I wonder when/if Weiss is even gonna hear about it. Or if Ironwood will mention it to Winter as they tussle.

Speaking of: I like that Ironwood shed a tear over having to fight Winter. Because it means (or should mean) the writers are aware that he's not insane, that he's been brought to the point--through his own fault as well as the failings of our protagonists--where the only thing left to him is his personal assertion of control and that this has overwhelmed his conscience but not his mind. He doesn't want to kill Winter, he doesn't want to kill the people in Mantle. He just can't suffer anyone standing in his way any longer. Which, slightly shaky as it has been to get here, is where he ought to be.

I'd put Yang a little higher, above the show average at least

The funny thing is, when it comes down to it, I'm neutral on A LOT of the cast of the series. In fact, I probably only really like Weiss, Ironwood, and Winter. Everyone else is on a sliding scale of tolerance.

Spoiler: *

I've also grown fond of Neo, but...she's still in the probationary phase.

And, just for completeness's sake: there are definitely characters I wish would just fall off an interdimensional walkway.

So, when I said that about Yang, it's probably more of a comment on my relationship with the series than it is specifically about Yang.

I mean, I clearly enjoy the series, generally, I just don't have strong emotional connections to the characters in it. (Which is a whole other discussion--but also kind of a compliment to the production overall.)

 

[MistLiigh]

Spoiler

In fact, I probably only really like Weiss, Ironwood, and Winter.

Wow... we have very different criteria it seems. I will admit though Weiss has risen to the neutral level for me since she chilled out (ha) on the tsundere/himedere bullshit she had going early on. Also good to see that she seems to have accepted her role as the party's wizard ever since she mastered her summoning.

But yeah, I can relate to what you said about being pretty neutral on most of the characters... I used to be more invested in some characters, but the overall slump has really leveled them all off a lot for me.

Spoiler

My favorite character has been dead for more volumes than she was alive... which is simultaneously sad but also maybe a relief that she didn't have to suffer the fate of her character falling into that neutral zone...

 

[interregnum]

Spoiler: Netting Neutrality

Weiss has risen to the neutral level for me since she chilled out (ha) on the tsundere/himedere bullshit

Aww, but that was my favorite part about Weiss!

...who has had less and less to do since she stopped being "full of herself." Which...I'll sort of a address in a moment.

we have very different criteria it seems

Ha! I assume you mean we have different tastes, more than we have different criteria--but let's skip the six hours of back-and-forth hairsplitting to define exactly how those two ideas are simultaneously related and separate.

Spoiler

For clarification, I think there are several mostly strong characters and/or characters that I enjoy having around. Like, Cinder is a very good character, Salem is thin but definitely sells her dangerousness, and Arthur's growing into something with some heft to it (now that he's allowed to be right about things). And I know those are all villains, but...oh! Qrow is pretty okay, especially since he's let his depression take over. They're all interesting or compelling in some fashion, and I like when they're on screen.

Weiss/Ironwood/Winter--just the three I genuinely like. With Ironwood probably being the only one with real character complexity, at the moment. Which is why I hope he's going to be around as an antagonist for a while.

Spoiler

Though, given what I'm about to say...

Well, look for the asterisk spoiler tag, below for more.

But, again, I'll get to that in a second.

But yeah, I can relate to what you said about being pretty neutral on most of the characters... I used to be more invested in some characters, but the overall slump has really leveled them all off a lot for me.

I wonder if you know just how much you've hit my thoughts about this square on the head.

While I don't know that it would move the needle for me if it were not the case (because I never "liked" most of the characters), I think there's more than a little bit of a connection between the decline in the characters and the decline in the...well, in the show overall. Which seems obvious, of course, but I mean the specific way one slides is very much the way the other slides.

First issue: too many characters. I know, controversial. But I'm thinking less along the lines of slimming the general cast as I am thinking that we don't need everyone to be on the poster. Like, we don't need Maria or Robin or most of the Aesops or Weiss's brother or Penny's dad taking up real estate as though their initials help form the title of the series. Don't kick them out of the series, but stop trying to make them all into major characters (for what often feels like cynical reasons). It undercuts the protagonists, giving them less to do and fewer places to grow as characters--and it makes them stale, boring, less colorful in their own rights.

Which bring us to issue number two, which is the mirror of the first: as we've moved along, our good guy characters in particular have gotten less and less interesting, because they've all been flattened out, in some fashion. Someone like Nora might still be allowed to be quirky (...no, let's be polite and keep "quirky"), but she's also only allowed to be a function of whatever the "this is the right decision" brigade wants. Their distinctions are no longer vibrant but in service of the Good Guy Agenda. They are functionaries of the plot, in that sense, their personalities less tamped down by the weight of their situation or their failures than given reduced elbow room to be themselves. And as the plot has grown and the cast along with it, out heroes are often relegated to reaction shots at what secondary or tertiary characters are doing.

Spoiler: wherein I go on for too long

Like, can you honestly tell me that our protagonists mattered at all to the election plot that ate up so much of last season? Or were they there mostly to talk about how obvious it was that compassionate lady was good and rich guy was bad? Or, worse, were they mostly there just to be around these other characters so that the show could be around them?

Weiss's "maturation," for example, is a good idea for a turn for her: this growing disillusionment with what she thought was how things should be. But is she any more complex or more interesting since then? Does she have more to do, as a result? Or is she mostly just there to use her family's wealth to conveniently let the heroes do things? And what's Ruby been up to since Oscar entered the story? How's Jaune doing? Are any of them characters, anymore, or just RPG companions who serve combat functions?

Spoiler: *

This is where my desire to have Ironwood stick around sort of flies in the face of my overall point: he's one of the only complex characters left on the show, one of the only ones whose character is evolving as he moves through the plot...but he's also NOT ONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS. Hell, he's not even one of the main bad guys, at this point--because he's not with Salem!

I can't come up with a reason to keep him around as an antagonist, honestly, that helps the story overall, because he's just one more thing to bog us down and distract us from both the the flow of the story and, as I have been yammering on about for far too long already, the main characters.

And, in the same way, the interpersonal character play just isn't there, anymore. There's no time. There's no time for relationships to grow and change like they would have in the early seasons. Blake and Yang might have a fight about how to handle something or Nora and Ren might disagree about what to do, but that's entirely plot-centric. Having a fight is not the same as challenging each other or pushing each other or depending on each other. But if the plot needs the gang to split up--boom, RWBY: Civil War.

To wit:

My favorite character has been dead for more volumes than she was alive... which is simultaneously sad but also maybe a relief

Heh, well, you might be right, all things considered.

But it's also something I'm glad you brought up: where's the Pyrrha pining for Jaune while Jaune pines for Weiss kind of stuff?

I don't mean to say we need romance subplots out the wazoo (...though I'd be happy if that were the case), but it's ust an easy example of the character-based story that fills no plot needs. It's just, y'know, Jaune's character arc. Was stepping up after Pyrrha's death the end of his character growth? Why aren't Jaune and Weiss getting closer? I don't mean it has to be them getting together, but they've both changed a fair amount, and they've both been working together...why aren't they doing more stuff together? Why aren't they propping each other up?

There's so much plot, now, and so many characters that they want interacting with that plot that everything's cluttered, and the charming character-driven parts of the series that hooked us in, early on, just don't have room.

Related just to EP 13, though...

Spoiler

How in the f*** is Penny able to shoot rockets from her feet and summon her blades? Are you going to tell me that it's ingrained on her soul? That it's Super Maiden nonsense? Come on.

 

[Vega]

Started watching Volume 8 again cause my best friend was extremely hyped for my reaction. This is definitely better as a binge watch since it means I can go from one episode to the next without spending an entire week dwelling on the extremely depressing shit. The good part of that is I can actually see the good aspects of it without dwelling too much on the negative, the bad part is I do have to call it a bit of a flaw because this is a show that releases weekly and for me this is just not enjoyable as a weekly watch. Granted part of that was my mental state but still.

Spoiler: up to episode 8

I'm really liking how changing up the teams a bit opens things up for more varied character interactions. For example as much as I enjoyed Blake and Yang's interactions with each other in previous volumes they didn't really interact nearly as much with anyone else. As much as my friend and I love the Blake/Yang ship we both agree this is a good change of pace. I also really like that there's an implication that a semblance can evolve in some form since that's what seemed to happen with Ren. Then there's a whole other SHITLOAD of implications when we see that the talking grimm is actually a human with silver eyes... really fucking nervous over what could have happened with Ruby's mom now. Ohhhh fuck.

As a binge watch I'm liking this more than volume 7, but so far 6 is still better. I'm still bummed that I can't enjoy this as a weekly watch, but at least I'm enjoying it now and that's what matters! It's always fun rambling back and forth about this with my friend too!

 

[Vega]

Watched the rest of Volume 8 with my friend and surprisingly... I really enjoyed this. This probably would have been a bit too hard for me to watch weekly but as a binge it was so much better for me.

Spoiler: finale

I can understand if people feel that Penny's death was too soon especially since she just became a real girl not long before her death but I felt like Volume 8 did a really good job wrapping up her character arc. From what I remember of the earlier episodes in the series she always wanted to be a real girl or at least something close to it, and in her last moments she was and she died protecting the friends she loved so much. IMO it fit really well. And Jaune killing her so Cinder wouldn't get the Maiden power... fuck that was brutal. I also really liked the post-credits scene and the whole idea of team RWBY being in some kind of unfamiliar world. I see a lot of potential there but I can also see some issues happening if they decide to split things too much between the stuff bound to happen in Vacuo and the stuff happening with team RWBY (I'd rather not have a volume 5-esque situation). It would also suck pretty hard if they chose to only follow the Vacuo stuff in volume 9 but I don't think that'll happen, at least I hope not cause RWBY without team RWBY would be a bit too weird. There's a lot more I could say too about the last few episodes but I'll leave it at that for now.

Definitely a better season than Volume 7 for sure, and to be totally honest it's nearly equal to Volume 6 for me as long as it's as a binge and not weekly. Safe to say my hype for the show is back! It's possible 9 could stumble a bit depending on what they do but we'll see!

 

[MistLiigh]

V8C14 (volume finale):

Spoiler

*deep sigh*

I'm not surprised, just... disappointed.

We lost Penny, for realsies this time, which is something, especially with Jaune having to do the deed. And Ironwood is presumably alive (I mean, he was on Altas when it crashed, which certainly could be fatal, but nah, he ain't dead), which is something.

Side-note, speaking of the Atlas crash: where the hell did that sudden rush of water come from?

But man... Look, Yang's cool, but killing her off would have been a hell of a shot in the arm, something the series desperately needs. Hell, even if she wasn't actually dead, they could have at least maintained the illusion for a bit, gotten some mileage out of it. At the very fucking least, saved it for a post-credits stinger. But as soon as Ruby and Blake both fell together, I just sighed, because it was obvious then that they weren't dead, Weiss at the least would be following them shortly, and now we're gonna have to deal with some side-quest bullshit that we just... really don't need right now. I guess the upshot is, Neo is stuck there with them, which promises to at least offer a little bit of conflict and more likely than not, finally some real insight into her past and what her whole deal is (which is almost certain to include flashbacks with Torchwick, can't complain about that).

Winter not only lived, but got the maiden powers, which just feels too hopeful considering everything else. Stretchy Arm Dude's death felt utterly pointless, and further, had no follow-up. Also I guess Qrow, Robin, and the surviving Aesops are just gonna have to get to Vacuo the long way? Already having the group in Vacuo and the group in this tree of life limbo whatever the fuck, plus some probable check-ins with Salem and co as they scheme menacingly, and then maybe this group... please tell me we're not gonna have another V5-esque juggling act in V9, which may be even worse since they've said V9 is probably gonna be a little shorter than normal to make up for V8 being a little longer... Though I guess also better in the sense that we can at least get everyone back together that much faster.

I will give them, Cinder being a total lying, back-stabbing bitch to cover her ass, at least attempt to bury some allies she had contentious relationships with and would probably have ratted on her, and get back in Salem's good graces was a nice touch. Definitely made Neo and Watts into proper enemies for her there (maybe not good guys, though I could see them giving Neo a face-turn over her time stuck with RWBYJ, but certainly hostile to her). I'm gonna guess Watts probably also survived the crash and we're gonna get some grudging teamwork between him and Ironwood to survive, and oh fuck me that's another potential thread to juggle...

So yeah. There were positives, but the negatives just really took the wind out of my sails... When it comes down to it, I think Miles and Kerry just don't have the narrative chops for a story this big and ambitious. There's too much reliance on cliffhangers and fake-out, too much main character armor, and not enough solid pacing or attention to the ebb and flow of tension.

Also, this is kind of a small detail, but it's one that's been bothering me for multiple volumes now: they've gotten really sloppy and inconsistent with the aura effects. At one time, that was consistently only when someone was in deep shit, and that was a great tool for tension. For a great example, see Pyrrha's last stand. But now, they just kind of happen whenever, way too often, sometimes even on literally the first hit of a fight and/or multiple times to the same character in a single fight, so now the effect can't even do its job of clearly telling you when someone is out of aura, no more shield, next hit is for real. I don't know when I should actually be concerned anymore.