RWBY: The Not Anime Anime Thread

[interregnum]

Spoiler: 9--and my complaints

"That villainous supergenius obviously used his hacking talent to manipulate the footage of Penny murdering everyone!"

"...doesn't that bolster my defense that the video my daughter just showed everyone was manipulated?"

"THAT'S NOT HOW THIS ANALOGY WORKS!!!"

Whatever, show.

Glad we took that entirely unnecessary detour through the election plot. I mean, it's not like Robyn could just be a hoodlum with a heart of gold, working as a citizen-activist against (what looks like) Ironwood dicking over Mantle...or like Mr. Schnee could just be a rich dude who is persuaded by a (threatening) colleague to grant him access to the computers in exchange for getting the blockade lifted...or like Robyn could have been having a plain ol' protest rally when Tyrion killed everyone and Penny got framed. Nope. That'd be crazy.

Ugh. Waste of time.

Oh, and all this "secrets are bad!" is just...trite. Ironwood's secret-keeping should be bad--as in, he should be so paranoid and isolated that the legitimate Operational Security aspect of his secrecy is outweighed by the logistical realities of the threat, where it would be more strategically prudent to make the public aware of at least some of the overall truth to avoid problems that would compromise the operation he's trying to hide. Except...he's not wrong. He's never been wrong, actually, about this.

Yes, he was taking too much of the burden on himself and needed more allies, which our protagonist teams have provided him, since they arrived. But I don't see him having crossed a line or what the better option would have been--I mean, he's in a bad situation with nothing but bad choices in front of him. Total transparency, here, sounds nice--in theory. But is it?

"People of Mantle! I'm going to need you all to starve, for a bit, not because I am racist or otherwise an elitist, but because there is a magical monster woman who is trying to get revenge on the world because her boyfriend dumped her. But I think we can stop her by building a giant radio tower. And, as I said before, by having you all starve--temporarily. Also, for your protection, I'm deploying an army of robot gunman to constantly parade your streets. Thanks so much for understanding. When it's all over, pizza party!"

Totally woulda worked. I'm sure.

We've had some really good opportunity for solid gray-area conflict, this season...and I feel like we're skipping all of that for some purely white-hat moralizing, where the good guys win by making all the "good" choices, even when there logically should only be a sliding scale of bad choices. And so Ironwood's secrets are bad because secrets--in general--are more often bad than good...so there's no reason to show us that the secret-keeping was always wrong or, at least, is no longer working like it was.

I feel like they bit off more than can chew, with this Atlas plot. Which is why we're runnin' right back to the action scenes.

use the declaration of her existence to strike fear across the world by immediately dropping Atlas on top of Mantle

That would be awesome. And also way too much.

In that you'd KILL both Atlas and Mantle. Not overrun, not cripple, not occupy with enemy forces--outright kill. I mean, the kingdom has to be broken by season's end, of course, but something that massive is not narratively easy to come back from.

The bit about getting the tower up only for Salem to then use it to declare victory, though, sound almost definite, to me, though. And would be a good way to crush Ironwood's morale completely. Since this season seems to be mostly about him. (Have you noticed how little our core group has influenced the story, this season?) And he needs to be taken off the board, narratively, because he's an adult--and an adult with authority, which means he can tell the kids what to do. Which runs contrary to the kids being the ones to save everyone, which is (I assume) the point since they're the protagonists.

 

[Vega]

I keep forgetting to post in here but I just wanted to pop in to say ohhhh boy I'm scared of what's gonna happen next week...

 

[MistLiigh]

v7c10:

Spoiler

Well, on the one hand, it's good to see the good guys learning from the past, including both their own mistakes (lookin' at you Ironwood, about damn time) and the things they had no control over. There's also something to be said for subverting my expectations. On the other hand... this episode is giving that "heading for a happy ending" vibe, and that's not what this volume needs; I really hope they're going to subvert that as well. I'm not sure quite how bad it needs to go, but I think it needs to end with more going wrong than right for the good guys, otherwise it just won't be at the right spot on the tension curve of the overall story. Which has kinda been my big problem with the last couple volumes: it hasn't felt like the tension was rising toward the climax. The tension should always be climbing toward the climax; even when the heroes have a victory and the tension loosens a little, the overall trend should be going upward, and that feeling has been rather lacking following the Fall of Beacon. So, perhaps we really need something of that scale to bring things back to where they should be... So yeah, sorry guys, but for story interest I'm rooting for Salem on this one... Atlas needs to crash and burn and the world grow more dangerous in a meaningful way.

Thankfully there are still some x-factors they can work with to turn this ship in that direction: Cinder and Neo are out to get the winter maiden and Ruby, Watts could still cause problems, Oz could assert control and create just enough hesitation at just the wrong time, Whitley is in the perfect position to be tempted to the dark side right now and bring some new curveball, we've yet to see Salem's flying apes, not to mention she could be cooking up something else quite juicy and dangerous to rival the threat of the dragon grimm from V3... But suffice to say I'm more worried than I should be... or, I guess more accurately, I'm less worried than I should be.

 

[Vega]

V7C10

Spoiler

Pretty good, action is ramping up and we got some good fights on the way based on how that ended. I think now it's safer to say we're getting to the point where things are really gonna get crazy over the next few weeks. Me and my friends have a bad feeling Ironwood will end up dead, just the fact that Watts seems so calm as he's getting ready to start his fight with Ironwood gives me bad vibes...

As for other possible deaths I'd say most likely would either be Qrow or Robyn, Clover will probably get out of the Tyrian fight alive cause of his good luck semblance, something could happen to Qrow possibly but I have my doubts cause he got poisoned by Tyrian back in v4 but survived. Would be nice if Robyn survived to be in future volumes but if she does die, at least it wouldn't be as bad as Sienna Khan's death (which like Roman's death back in v3 has still been my most disliked moments of the show).

 

[interregnum]

And if you thought I was long-winded before...

Spoiler: 10

Spoiler: Part I: The Quick Grumble

First off: f*** you, show. That namby-pamby "Hate will not divide us!" was some grade-A bull****. By which I mean that was childish idealistic nonsense, and this series is better than that.

Spoiler: To that end...

You...had Robyn say the bad guys were in...Sector 17.

Really? You had Robyn call out bad guys in Sector 17?

Oo. How subtle.

Ding-dong, you can't hide from me.

And to the larger point--and for when our pal @MistLiigh is caught up:

Spoiler: Part II: The Broader Grumble

this episode is giving that "heading for a happy ending" vibe, and that's not what this volume needs

I know this line is about Ep 9, but there's a similar point to make about this one, too. Though it's not specifically about how it's headed for a "good guys win" ending, but rather (and I might be repeating myself from last week) about how they're heading in this direction--or, really, how, even if they're not, there's a big problem with just how they're going wherever they're going.

I've already complained about the good guys winning by choosing the most obviously "good" thing because things aren't complex or difficult there's always a "good" answer and it's always the right one to pick always. And maybe that's what's happening, and maybe it isn't. Maybe all the gooey sentimentalism is just a set-up, a heaping of sugar to lull us into complacency so they can shock us to hell with the bitter medicine of misfortune up their sleeves. Or maybe they're just letting their personal feelings about contemporary whatever cloud their narrative chops. I don't know. But, whether we're headed for the good or bad ending, with this volume, this is a sloppy way to get there.

This season has been very much about an optics battle, a war of public relations, strategic uses of information/truth/lies. And I'm not sure the writers know what that requires, in terms of storytelling--even in a typical RWBY-level storytelling way.

Because, yes, evacuating everyone to Atlas is a good idea, rallying the people of Mantle by broadcasting Ironwood and Robyn as a partnership is a good idea, and letting slip both the Salem and stadium project info as a trap was a good idea...but it wasn't being executed from the strategy-minded side of the story. Instead, it all comes out of this sappy positivity messaging--whether it's meant to be meta or strictly in-universe.

"Well, bless your cynical heart, dear interregnum, but why is that a bad thing? What's wrong with a little positivity and hope and good feelings?"

Nothing, rhetorical cohort. Nothing at all. In fact, Ruby and her friends, being the heroes of an apocalyptic nightmare scenario, should be all about hope (beacons of it, you could say), because hope is the only thing that will keep the fight against Salem going. Because the odds certainly won't. The ever-shrinking defensible territory won't. The overwhelming armies of evil won't. No, it's the thematically classic idea that hope is all that stands between darkness and light, and the good guys should be, in some form or another, absolutely slathered in it.

BUT...it all needs to come from the characters--and, importantly, from the characters reacting within their situation. And I don't see that happening.

And it's this same thread that's connecting all the (seemingly) disparate things I've been jumping through, here: the focus on strategic intelligence, the simple good-guys-do-good resolutions, the sentimentalism--and, yes, why it might be much more satisfying for the good guys to gets their asses handed to them, at the end of this season, even if they do ultimately claw their way back into the fight at the same time.

Take the joint Ironwood/Robyn broadcast as the example. It's dripping with simplistic idealism, not just in its tone but in its practical purpose of revealing to the masses that Salem is the evil mastermind behind all their recent problems. No one--and I mean no one--should believe this. At all. In any way. And neither should anyone be swayed by it. None of them should trust Ironwood, and having Robyn endorse him, suddenly, and in the middle of an attack, should confuse people more than inspire them. Sure, they'll jump at the chance to escape on the dropships to Atlas, but the only way it would connect with anyone in Mantle is if the plot contrived that the message of "love wins!" was all it would take to solve decades of class warfare. Which means this moment falls flat.

On the other hand, there's a kind of genius to the broadcast if it's designed exclusively to screw with Watts and Tyrion. They gamed them both (perhaps too easily, but within the margin of error, I think, for RWBY), luring Watts to the stadium and Tyrion into believing the chaos he'd sown was immediately replaced by a quick chorus of "Kumbaya." It's laughable to think it worked on anyone in Mantle (or Atlas), but it had enough dangerous information to the baddies that it spurred them to act in a very specific and predictable way. It's pretty clever--but it's also not given much narrative attention. (The cleverness, I mean.) And, in a season of infowars, it really should be: Ironwood and Robyn are holding hands, which is meant to relay that Ironwood is telling the truth...but he's also clearly lying (in retrospect), which means Robyn knows he's lying and is lying that he isn't lying, which is obviously the plan they want to use to entrap Watts and Tyrion.

The season, to this point, hinges on this message...but the episode plays it for the effect it has on the folks in Mantle, not on how it's being done as a trap. That is, the success is not measured by its tactical cleverness but by its emotional or moral message. "Aha! A call for unity in divisive times! Well, there's that plot thread resolved, huh?" It's not a story beat, it's a tone.

What happens next--and this, @MistLiigh, is where I'd like to connect most directly to your point (also...thank you for wending your way down this far)--should, thematically (based on what this season should have mostly been about), be a big loss for the good guys that boomerangs back to be a turning point in their struggle. Maybe Atlas explodes, maybe Ironwood and Robyn and Penny die, maybe Cinder and Neo become winter maiden wonder twins and eat most of the citizens of Mantle--but whatever it is, it should be terrible AND juuuuuuust ill-placed enough in its awfulness that it makes everyone angry rather than scared, turning their fear into resolve, and drives them to get up off their asses to team up and get to work beating back the darkness.

...which would be super-duper climactic, if it was all based on a series of tangible struggles instead of oversimplified gouts of "goodness."

Clover will probably get out of the Tyrian fight alive

Given his previous confident statement about his good luck, it's my guess that he takes a bullet meant for Qrow and that's the end of him. (Part of the loss-that-leads-to-win deal I mentioned above.)

I'd be shocked if Ironwood makes it. I'd be twice as shocked if Robyn doesn't.

Also...I'd like our main characters to get back to being the main characters, please.

 

[MistLiigh]

Firstly,

And to the larger point--and for when our pal @MistLiigh is caught up:

I know this line is about Ep 9, but there's a similar point to make about this one, too.

Whoops... I accidentally mis-labeled the episode for that post, I actually was talking about v7c10. But I guess the pointer in my brain went to the wrong memory location or something... Corrected it now.

As to the rest:

Spoiler

Yeah, I agree. There is a lot to take issue with over how they're getting to the end of this volume, whatever ending we may be heading for. My complaint is more focused on how my current expectations for the volume fit into the big picture though, mainly because that's what's been stuck in my craw for the past few years with RWBY. A story that runs this long naturally breaks itself into smaller sub-stories, in this case each sub-story being a volume, and both the full story and each of those sub-stories all need to take the basic shape of a story. As it stands, the full story hasn't been the right shape since volume 3; the Fall of Beacon was a huge peak of escalation, but then there was too steep of a drop-off heading into v4. Ostensibly, sure, the stakes have theoretically gone up since, but it hasn't felt like it, and perception is key. It's hard for me to really describe specifics; feelings are already tougher to pin-down than logic, and even more so when those feelings weren't really that strong. I believe the story needs something to bring the feeling of the stakes back in-line with the reality of the stakes: all of Remnant is moving faster than ever toward the brink of destruction at the hands of a malevolent, unkillable being with access to long-forgotten magic beyond the realm of current mortal understanding. We need to see something big to drive home that very real threat of absolute destruction; by this point, it shouldn't just be a few people whose lives are no longer normal or safe, everyone should be affected at least to the point of feeling scared and unsafe, even if they are are among the lucky ones behind walls. That's why I wanted to see the announcement of Salem to the world flipped into a globally broadcasted message of terror and imminent demise. And to your point, the people who were already affected, namely our heroes, should have their resolve steeled and turned to a catalyzing anger to drive them forward. And also to another of your points, yeah, even if they work their way to making that happen at the end of the volume (which seems doubtful atm), the way they'll have gotten there this volume is unsatisfying... While I enjoyed the political jabs, they are ultimately a trifle we should be long past.

So yeah, I'm with you in your complaints, I'm just choosing to come at them from a different view. I suppose we shall see what happens, but I think it's gonna be a little tough to satisfy people like us at this point...

 

[interregnum]

Very well said.

Spoiler

Your point, I mean, not the bit about mislabeling the episode number. Which I thought might be the case, but...well, can't spend those extra 13 seconds to go back and confirm that you posted something about last week's episode, can I? Do something smart and easy and responsible? Like some nerd? Pffft.

Cough. Where...where was I?

Oh, right:

I believe the story needs something to bring the feeling of the stakes back in-line with the reality of the stakes

That's...that's probably exactly what I've been dancing around, in my prattling, isn't it. I mean, the specifics of the prattling are not inaccurate to my feelings, but I think what you said was right there underneath it, without me realizing it was there.

Because you are absolutely right: our protagonists should already be where I am looking for this season to bring them. I disagree that Beacon should have been the thing to get them to that point [***], but it has been far too long with them nominally accepting that Salem was an apocalyptic villain and not really acting like that was the case. There's been a lot of faffing about, instead. (Which is a topic for another time.)

I think, because I never thought the series was going to be as entertaining as it is, and because, really, it's still relatively amateurish (as much as I love it), I tend not to look at it as critically as I might another series.

Spoiler: ***

The fall of Beacon was...okay, narratively, it's something for our protagonists and for the world at large to react to.

As with many any large-scale terrible event, the world should be worried about its implications...but it's also easy for them not to care much about, in the end, if it doesn't affect the proverbial price of eggs: out of sight, out of mind. And with the explanation being that it was a big ol' monster attack (rather than the rise of some ancient evil), it makes sense that the world wouldn't be in a panic and would, in fact, be more concerned about why Ironwood was locking down Atlas like a big jerkface.

For our protagonists, though, I think Beacon is the thing to terrify and break them--which it did, at least in terms of breaking them apart from each other. It's all been a process to work back to each other and to their shredded confidences, and we have the lingering ghost of Pyrrha to represent that. No matter how much our heroes have gotten through, since Beacon, they're still the walking wounded, still healing, still trying to avoid reopening the wounds...all while finding it increasingly unlikely that they can find a killswitch to stop Salem. What they need is something that pushes them past that pain and gets them to stop thinking like they used to. Stop seeing it as a mission to save anything and, instead, as a mission to end Salem.

A season of grays should end with them going black-and-white on the whole thing: there's defeating the evil, and everything else is secondary. No, it doesn't mean the ends justify the means or that they lose all moral compass or anything like that. But I think they need something to push them to realize that this might be a suicide mission...and that that's more than okay.

Spoiler: Dumb symbolism thing

I don't think this is something that should happen, necessarily, but I think it's a good enough example that I'll use it:

Jaune's armor is made from Pyrrha's shield, right? Or something along those lines. It was a wonderful nod and I love it to death. (Not as much as him off in the woods practicing along to the video she made him, which...shut up, YOU'RE crying!) But...what if holding onto her, even like this, is actually holding him back? What if the idea that she's still there to protect him, in some way, doesn't let him reach his potential as a soldier on this very specific mission? Symbolically, he'd have to set that armor aside, place it somewhere that's meant to be a private monument to her life, and take up armor that's just his.

I don't want that, but I think that's the kind of thing the kids need: something to be the crucible that (and, yes, I'm going to say this) brings about their final form.

Also...

Spoiler

I didn't need this, internet.

 

[MistLiigh]

Spoiler

That's...that's probably exactly what I've been dancing around, in my prattling, isn't it. I mean, the specifics of the prattling are not inaccurate to my feelings, but I think what you said was right there underneath it, without me realizing it was there.

Sometimes it just takes two people bouncing their words at each other to put it all together, eh?

Because you are absolutely right: our protagonists should already be where I am looking for this season to bring them. I disagree that Beacon should have been the thing to get them to that point [***], but it has been far too long with them nominally accepting that Salem was an apocalyptic villain and not really acting like that was the case. There's been a lot of faffing about, instead. (Which is a topic for another time.)

To be clear, I'm not saying the Fall of Beacon should have brought them to that point, I'm merely using it as a reference point for when the overarching story curve fell out of place. Through volume 3, the tension was on a continual upward trend, as it should be; even when it relaxed a bit, the averages were still on their way up. But after volume 3 and the Fall of Beacon, as we moved into volume 4, that's when the feeling and reality of the stakes began to unhinge from each other, by my reckoning, and the gap has continued to increase. You are absolutely correct; it's not that they should have been fully resolved right after Beacon, it's that there's been too much nonsense, too much going too consistently in favor of the heroes, and too long without a real and meaningful turning point to affect their resolve since then. Reactions to Beacon were fine, but we are long past due for the thing that pushes each group to the next step, bringing the general public to "oh shit this is real and we shouldn't feel safe" and those who were already there after being at ground-zero to "we can't back down now, we have to do something." Except for the one person who inevitable say "oh fuck we're screwed we can't stop this" and has to have some sense forced into them.

 

[Vega]

V7C11

Holy shit, this is the episode I've been waiting for!

Spoiler

Ironwood finally goes nuts due to consequences of actions in prior episodes piling up, we get some seriously cool fights and a pretty huge reveal about Ruby's mom.... holy shit we need an episode detailing what exactly killed her. It's obvious Salem had her killed but this is something we need to see! Possibly in a future season! I had some mixed feelings for a while over the sheer amount of setup they've been doing this season but this episode made it all worth it IMO.

 

[MistLiigh]

V7C11:

7/11 never disappoints. Okay, maybe not never...

Spoiler

To think it was only one episode ago that I was so worried that we'd have too happy an ending for the volume... I mean, I feel like there might be a bit too much see-sawing as far as that goes, but y'know what, just get us there and don't fuck up the curve again, and I'll forgive you.

It's about time Ironwood got pushed over the edge, I'm sure @interregnum will at least be happy to see him reach this point (if not how he got here). He's dancing to Salem's tune now, treating his allies like enemies and wasting time and energy fighting the wrong people. That's what she does, just as her theme from 4 seasons ago says: "divide them / tear them apart / sever their trust / it will strangle their hearts." And she's turned James into an unwitting puppet to that end oh so easily.

Also, we're finally going somewhere with the mystery of Summer Rose, perhaps one of the biggest and certainly longest-unanswered questions; technically, it has existed on some level since the Red Trailer. As in, literally as long as the series has existed. Consider my interest piqued.

 

[interregnum]

Oh, yeah--good idea about noting which Ep 11 we're talking about, guys. I shall follow suit.

Spoiler: V7, E11

It's about time Ironwood got pushed over the edge, I'm sure @interregnum will at least be happy to see him reach this point (if not how he got here).

Oh, I was definitely happy to see it finally happen. It's several episodes later than it should be, and Team RWBY is picking the silliest reason to disagree with him ("Waaaaah people might get hurt waaaaah!!!")...but this is exactly the moral conflict they've been pretending existed all season, and they managed to give it to us in a single episode--and in mostly excellent fashion, to boot.

I mean, they make it very clear that he's been pushed over the edge, but they also don't have him lose his frikkin' mind to show us this. Instead, they lay out a perfectly logical, perfectly in-character, perfectly in-universe-consequences reason for all of it: doom is imminent, and his tireless efforts to enact the one fragile and desperate plan he had were undermined by the only people he trusted who were not under his control. So, of course, all he has left is his last resort: shutting down the human element, and going full automaton, with a plan that makes perfect sense (though narrative convention makes it obvious that it's not going to work) for the exact same reasons his push over the edge makes sense.

It's basically perfect.

And I think my favorite part is that he's doing this because the girls screwed up. Well, he's doing it because of a million other things, too, but that Yang and Blake defied him by revealing the plan to Hill means that--finally!--the complexities of the situation outweighed the simple heroic morality of the situation (at least a little bit), and the "good guys" doing the "good" thing turned out to be the wrong thing to do.

Because, yes, this current situation would have freaked him out...but 100% he'd be more open to an alteration or two to this Hail Mary plan if he thought he could trust them. I don't think they could stop him from going with it, but they could have gotten him to consider at least something else, if he didn't think trusting them to help him was the chink in his armor that got him to where he is right now.

And here's the other wrinkle I love:

He's dancing to Salem's tune now

He sure is--but he also wasn't going to be able to avoid it, even if he didn't react this way.

Because Salem, like any great general, already had the battlefield prepped, long before making her move. Which means that, no matter what Ironwood did, no matter if he zigged or zagged in reaction to her move, he'd give her exactly what she wanted. Because she doesn't want one simple thing...she wants one complex thing--which means she needs only one of any number of things to go her way for her victory in every other aspect to present itself.

Because you'll note that she doesn't say what she's going to do. She doesn't present any kind of force of arms or indication of what she's about to do. She just lets it appear that she might be about to do something and that's all it takes for him to react. He makes her move for her. (That's why the chess piece is so apt: it's game theory. If Ironwood's resolve doubles, she overwhelms the depleted forces and takes the Maiden. If he runs, Cinder uses his growing paranoia at protecting the Maiden to take them down from within.)

I hope they build off of this. I also worry that they might backslide to the "morally good means strategically correct!" moves of earlier in the season. But this episode went a long way to rebalancing my hope/worry meter.

And...I'm just happy to hear Cortana, again.

...HALO 4 IS THE BEST LOVE STORY IN GAMING!!!

 

[MistLiigh]

Spoiler

He sure is--but he also wasn't going to be able to avoid it, even if he didn't react this way.

Because Salem, like any great general, already had the battlefield prepped, long before making her move. Which means that, no matter what Ironwood did, no matter if he zigged or zagged in reaction to her move, he'd give her exactly what she wanted. Because she doesn't want one simple thing...she wants one complex thing--which means she needs only one of any number of things to go her way for her victory in every other aspect to present itself.

Because you'll note that she doesn't say what she's going to do. She doesn't present any kind of force of arms or indication of what she's about to do. She just lets it appear that she might be about to do something and that's all it takes for him to react. He makes her move for her. (That's why the chess piece is so apt: it's game theory. If Ironwood's resolve doubles, she overwhelms the depleted forces and takes the Maiden. If he runs, Cinder uses his growing paranoia at protecting the Maiden to take them down from within.)

Exactly.

Salem has hundreds, maybe thousands of lifetimes' worth of experience, and a clear, simple goal that could be achieved countless different ways. She's been testing and observing humanity since time immemorial, learning all the different ways they might react to any given type of attack. By this point, she knows how to sow a web of plans to cover whatever reaction a man like Ironwood might take when backed into a corner. She never needed to know every little detail of his operations, she just had to keep ramping up the pressure until he made any mistake, and she'd be ready to take advantage of it when he did, whatever mistake he made. Truly, she holds all the cards, and it would only be a matter of time for her victory as long as the heroes are simply reacting. The only hope of beating her would be to avoid making any mistakes long enough for smaller, independent forces to start proactively disrupting her plans enough to create an opening, but even that could only work if they actually knew enough about her plans and could coordinate such an effort; but as you've said, she doesn't show her hand until it's too late, and even then only as much as she needs to, and one of her greatest weapons is dividing people and preventing that coordination... Sure would be a convenient start if they had some sort of all-knowing entity that could reveal all of her cards...

 

[MistLiigh]

V7C12:

Spoiler

I guess you could say Clover's luck finally ran out.
...
Too soon?

That was a strange fight though... Clover was clearly prioritizing and targeting Qrow, the good albeit troubled dude he was just getting along with so well, over Tyrian, the insane murderous sociopath with the robot scorpion tail who literally worships the greatest threat known to Remnant. Strange choice, clearly didn't work out for him. And Qrow teaming up with Tyrian to stop Clover, also seems like a strange choice, clearly didn't work out too well for him either... granted, he's at least used to that.

JNR (plus Oscar) get to fight Neo next week, that should be pretty bitchin' :o

Y'know, not sure exactly when it started... but it's good to see Weiss finally embracing her role as the party's Wizard instead of letting that 1 level dip into Fighter go to her head. Seriously, that round 2 fight against FNKI in the Vytal festival could have been a much cleaner win if she'd had her role figured out 4 volumes ago.

It struck me as poignant that Penny, the robot, was acting like a human, while Winter, the human, was acting like a robot. There's definitely a lot being said this volume about blindly following orders. Gotta feel bad for the winter maiden though, poor old lady's life is in question no matter which side wins (although she clearly has a better chance with one than the other...)

How many episodes are we getting this volume?

 

[Vega]

V7C12

Not a bad episode but I'm genuinely pissed off at the writers.

Spoiler

Fuck that entire Qrow/Tyrian/Clover fight. That was honestly horribly executed, why the fuck did they have qrow waste time punching clover in the stomach instead of grabbing the weapon that was yanked away from him? That's fucking stupid. I usually don't mind the writing in this show but this was probably done as an excuse to kill Clover off and honestly, what the fuck were these writers thinking? That sequence fucking sucked and it's as bad as Roman Torchwick's stupid death in volume 3 but honestly WORSE.

Rest of the episode was good, but fuck that entire sequence.

 

[interregnum]

Ten points if you can predict why I'm angry at this week's episode.

Spoiler: V7.E12

"If we fight among ourselves, we play right into Salem's hands! We should be working together! That's why my friends and I are openly defying you instead of calmly pleading our case in the hopes of compromise before things go too far! Why can't you people see that?!"

Sigh. I actually don't know which self-righteous speech made me roll my eyes hardest.

The whole point of the position the heroes are in, right now, is that there is no good answer. Nothing easy, nothing simple, nothing clean. There should be a whole lot of "heart vs. head" and "pragmatist vs. idealist" disagreement--absolutely. But it should be EVERYWHERE. Every group of protagonists should be divided, and they should all be divided for different reasons, with differing levels of confidence in the side they fall on. (And there should be a couple of surprises, too, when it comes to who picks which side.)

What there should ABSOLUTELY NOT be is a "right" answer. When you create a schism or start a civil war (narratively, I mean) with your protagonists, you are essentially asking your audience a philosophical question, asking them to think and consider and see how they instinctively react: Team Cap or Team Iron Man, kids--liberty at the cost of safety, or safety at the cost of liberty?

You answer quickly or you struggle to justify one or the other...and, in the end, the answer is that it's a false binary. And we are fools for having thought it was anything else. AND...we fall for it every frikkin' time. Because that's humans, folks.

Unless you're Team RWBY. Apparently. They're all on the same page, all absolutely certain that victory in the moral battle of the moment is the same as winning the war.

Team Ironwood? Committed to their official side, sure, but ranging from zealous to conflicted. We didn't get a chance to look into them in too much detail (which is doubly unfortunate in the case of the Weiss vs. Marrow fight, considering their backgrounds and the sides they were fighting for), but the spectrum was very clearly there, whether it was Winter saying that Ironwood's decision is horrible but necessary or Clover saying that "right" doesn't mean "easy" or Hare and [Tough Girl] all but unflinchingly certain that Ironwood could only ever be right. And, if you go back and watch, their side is also the only one we see spend any time on weighing the situation and how they feel and whether those feelings matter.

Which is interesting because Team RWBY, much like Cap in the MCU version of Civil War, were the villains in their own story, here, as the story tried so hard to tell you--tell you, please note--that they were totally the ones who were right. Like, for obvs, you guys. Because who needs nuance when blind adherence to the self-assured morality of the writers is just assumed to be universally acknowledged as correct and, therefore, the only possible way the protagonists could feel.

I mean...in a season where the "good guys" being "right" because "they're the good guys" has been the baseline, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that this is how the episode unfolded. But when the show offers me two clearly bad ideas and asks me to choose, forgive me if I'm not expecting the show to then lecture me about how there's only one bad choice.

Man, this season coulda been great, guys.

Also: that three-way fight between Qrow and Clover and Tyrion was total bull****. And--wait, this seems like a good time to read what you guys posted...

That was a strange fight though...

Fuck that entire Qrow/Tyrian/Clover fight.

Oh, good.

"I mean, given the choice between a fight with my pal over a topic we can talk about or stopping a PSYCHOPATHIC MURDERER IN THE THRALL OF THE ARCHVILLAIN, obviously I choose fighting my pal! And teaming up with the psychopathic murderer in the thrall of the archvillain. Because I'm #moral."

Whatever. I think any one of us could have written that scene about a million times better than it was done. Tyrion was literally the only one acting in-character, at that point.

good to see Weiss finally embracing her role as the party's Wizard instead of letting that 1 level dip into Fighter go to her head.

And this was just a delightful way of phrasing this. Well done.

 

[Vuh]

Spoiler: V7E11 yes I'm watching free shut up

Yoooooooo my boi Ironwood going ham on Watts. That anti-gravity fight was the shit!

But oh no! Some random Salem shit and Ironwood losing his GOD DAMN mind for the second half of the episode.

I kinda like it. I'm excited on how team RWBY is gonna turn these elite soldiers into bitch bois. I want to see how Ironwood's unhinged paranoia leads to his downfall. Well, that and Ozpin's brainwashing. The fact that Project Save the Rich Folk was Oz's idea all along really pisses me off. I hope Oscar can beat the shit out of Ozpin, because holy shit, I'm starting to feel like he's the real villain here....well, villain #2. The Vice Villain, if you will. Big Bahama Mama Salem still the Big Bad Numero Uno. I can't wait to see her and Ruby on the battlefield together. They gonna have some weirdo dynamic.

Calling it now, Summer Rose comes back as a zombie or some shit. Because why not.

The worst part about the next episode is knowing I have to wait till goddamn November to see more. BUT! Since Vacuo is next you know what that means? New character outfits! Can't wait for the desert designs!

Edit: Also I'm not gonna lie I like PTSD, battle-hardened Ruby way more than ditzy dumbass Ruby. She's really coming into her own, as a character and as a young woman and I hope she matures even more in the next season because HOLY SHIT, finally! Blake isn't the only adult in the room any more!

 

[interregnum]

yes I'm watching free

...isn't everyon--oooohhh.

Spoiler

I hope Oscar can beat the shit out of Ozpin, because holy shit, I'm starting to feel like he's the real villain here....well, villain #2.

Well, we all know the Wizard of Oz was a big phony, so his veneer of cool omniscience and measured action was always intended to fall, I suppose.

I don't know that I'd call him a villain, but certainly inhuman--and I mean that fairly literally: he's been obsessively attempting to win the unwinnable for an eternity; he's not thinking on a scale that any of our characters are. (An issue that is microcosmed with Ironwood's logical but inscrutable handling of things, thus far.)

To wit:

The fact that Project Save the Rich Folk was Oz's idea all along really pisses me off.

I assumed it was less about ensuring the safety of the upper crust than it was about utilizing their floating city. If the slums had been floating, I would guess he'd pull a "let them eat cake" on the elites.

I don't think Ozpin sees people as people, anymore. Not that I think he sees them as objects or pawns, but...he's probably compartmentalized things to the point where, even if he feels empathy/sympathy for those harmed by the war against Salem, it in no way connects with the utterly cold strategic centers of his mind.

Or he's just a monster. That is still an option.

 

[Ebonyslayer]

Thoughts so far up to episode 12 of Vol. 7:

Spoiler

That gravity fight between Ironwood and Arthur Watts was pretty awesome. Then Ironwood rips the skin off his arm to take out Arthur, which makes him even more badass. But it seems like Cinder's infiltration and Salem's message has put everyone on edge. So now it seems like Ironwood is willing to sacrifice everyone on Mantle to protect the relics and the winter maiden. But he always seemed like an "ends justify the means" kind of guy.

There are fights going on everywhere during the latest episodes, and Tyrion gets away again, but not without killing an Ace-Ops in bloody fashion. Jaune and the guys are going to fight Neapolitan, and it looks like Penny and Winter are going to fight Cinder. I'm expecting the worst case scenario to be honest, but maybe this is the one time Cinder loses a fight for a maiden, other than Yang's mom. Plus there's the fact that Penny hasn't really won any fights, as far as I can remember anyway.

There's also the fact that Rwby's mom did fight Salem at some point during the story but that's all the information for now it seems. All I know is that something big is going to happen in the season finale and I don't want to miss a moment of it.

 

[MistLiigh]

V7C13:

Spoiler

Goddammit... Curse Miles and Kerry and their hard-on for cliff-hangers.

This is not quite where this volume needed to end. Don't get me wrong, Salem riding in personally on top of fucking Monstro with a massive Grimm army ready to fucking ruin some days is not bad, and it's poised to make an interesting conflict with the newly minted Penny-Maiden, not to mention Geppetto on a ship (yeah, I see what you're doing with those Pinocchio allusions)... I still think my idea of her striking fear across Remnant by hijacking the communications tower launch before dropping Atlas on Mantle would be better, but at this point I'll take what I can get. But ending a chunk as significant as a season on a cliff-hanger is more than a little cheap, doubly so when you've already been abusing them on and off at the episode level for so long, and it's cutting off the all-important climax in a story that really fucking needs it right now. This volume honestly really needed to be Volume 3 take 2 and... yeah, it wasn't. Ngl, I'm getting pretty frustrated with the series at this point. Not just frustrated, but... disappointed. Four years ago I was so in love with this series and now... it's honestly like I don't even know what it is anymore. It's not me, it's you.

*sigh* I'm sure there's other stuff worth saying but... Ugh, that just put me in kind of a depressive funk and I can't be arsed right now.

 

[Vega]

V7C13

Spoiler

I liked it but this is going to be an absolutely brutal wait after how this ended, though it doesn't have as much impact on me cause I've been through even worse cliffhanger lengths than this (looking at you, Shenmue series...). IMO this was better than last week. Part of me honestly wonders if this is going to be a build up to a final battle, especially cause Volume 9 is supposed to be shorter than 8 and for some reason I just can't see them spending three whole seasons in Vacuo. Maybe next season opens with failed Salem battle, then we go to Vacuo, then volume 9 is final battle arc. Then there's whatever's gonna happen with Qrow and Robyn, their possible separation from the rest of the main cast is giving me volume 4/5 flashbacks... not that those seasons were awful (I even liked 5 though I consider it weaker than other seasons) but the separation dragged on too long so here's hoping this isn't a repeat.

As for my thoughts on this season overall I liked it. Liked it more than 4 and 5 but nowhere near as good as volume 6. Still looking forward to next season as always!

V7C13:

Spoiler

Goddammit... Curse Miles and Kerry and their hard-on for cliff-hangers.

This is not quite where this volume needed to end. Don't get me wrong, Salem riding in personally on top of fucking Monstro with a massive Grimm army ready to fucking ruin some days is not bad, and it's poised to make an interesting conflict with the newly minted Penny-Maiden, not to mention Geppetto on a ship (yeah, I see what you're doing with those Pinocchio allusions)... I still think my idea of her striking fear across Remnant by hijacking the communications tower launch before dropping Atlas on Mantle would be better, but at this point I'll take what I can get. But ending a chunk as significant as a season on a cliff-hanger is more than a little cheap, doubly so when you've already been abusing them on and off at the episode level for so long, and it's cutting off the all-important climax in a story that really fucking needs it right now. This volume honestly really needed to be Volume 3 take 2 and... yeah, it wasn't. Ngl, I'm getting pretty frustrated with the series at this point. Not just frustrated, but... disappointed. Four years ago I was so in love with this series and now... it's honestly like I don't even know what it is anymore. It's not me, it's you.

*sigh* I'm sure there's other stuff worth saying but... Ugh, that just put me in kind of a depressive funk and I can't be arsed right now.

Spoiler

More than likely they felt it was fine to end it like this cause they know where it's going. With that said I do feel this cliffhanger was a bit much and that they should have done more with Salem in the episode, I was looking forward to that damn it! As for Volume 3 part 2 I feel like that won't happen until Volume 9, the way I've always looked at it is that the show is divided up in thirds, vol 1 and 2 being the setup for volume 3, 4 and 5 setting up volume 6. I know that's not much consolation considering it's going to take over a year to get to volume 9 but it still gives me something to look forward to (and to watch) even if they pull the same crap with volume 8. With all that said if they do what they've largely done for most of the show and spend three whole seasons in Vacuo it'll likely wear a bit thin on me especially because I'm not sure what else they could reveal about the story that they haven't already revealed back in volume 6, outside of what really happened to Ruby's mom.