People "hate" option removed

Discussion in 'Site Announcements' started by sothis, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Kari5

    Kari5 Database Moderator

    Posted by Kari5 on Jun 7, 2019
    Really glad this decision was made!

    If you want to critique someone specifically, whether as a director or actor, it can also be mentioned in a review which is much more constructive.
    Saeryen and Katoire like this.
  2. LavanderGirl

    LavanderGirl Well-Known Member

    Just noticed that the people button and hate button are both gone actually. But I understand the change.
    Nicknames likes this.
  3. Armani

    Armani Member

    Posted by Armani on Jun 7, 2019
    Agreed. They don't want to receive anything in the negative spectrum and only want the cookie, and that pat on the back. They can't accept anything other than positive, or they'd see it as a direct attack on them and call you a troll, hater, bully with assumptions thrown your way that you are a terrible person, that you are this or that, and try to harass you sometimes getting their "fans" involved to help them out in said bullying, turning themselves into the thing they are accusing you of being. They want to control the type of opinion they get so as to avoid anything that doesn't stroke their ego because they can't seem to comprehend, or tolerate, the fact that once you post something to the public, it is going to get criticized one way or the other. It's unfair (people silencing anything negative), but as HKBattosai mentioned, people are seriously over sensitive these days and misconstrue anything just because it doesn't fit in their special snowflake bubble. It's probably one of the reasons why we don't have that nice little heartbreak on reviews, I still want that but can you imagine how many with a large ego would whine to the site staff, or on their profile pages, that they are "Being bullied", "These people are trolls", etc, or the amount of payback attempts on the people who dared give their opinion on their piece? A massive headache/nightmare I'd imagine.

    That being said, I partly see the reason why it was removed, but at the same time not happy that it was. If VAs, mangakas, etc, can't handle that someone may hate the work they release to the public, I seriously question why they decided to go into their chosen profession. You have to accept that not everyone will like your work, or even yourself once you put things out in the public eye. It's a consequence as much as it is a fact. I will never touch, and boycott, anything Amber Heard is in. Some Trump haters refuse to let go of a crime they believe he committed even if it was proven he didn't commit it. Yes, some can be outright vile when it comes to their opinion, same in reverse (looking at you people who send Netflix letters about Ted Bundy being hot and ignoring the fact he's a serial killer). You can't help the type of opinions you get, it may hurt your sensitive ego but life was never one not to be harsh, as it has been teaching even now. On the other hand, no one wants a potential Kathleen Hale or Richard Brittain incident. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if some people are like that on here, trying to stalk, or attack, the people that dared to say "I hated or dislike this person/or their work.". Even some fan of the work may take it upon themselves to "seek justice" by hunting a "hater" down. On the opposite hand, it feels too much like the site staff wants to pander to the "positive only" crowd, with baby proofing things. Yet, at the same time I can see that they are wanting to protect us as well from potentially dangerous people, and nightmare bullying and stalking situations. But, they could have at least tried to find a fairer way to deal with this instead of out right silencing negative opinion. A public discussion about it maybe? But then again, that might take up too much time to do when they could be doing other important site maintenance, and even if they did find a nice alternative button for us they'd probably still get attacked for allowing any form of negativity on here. So it's a no win situation really, apart from the sensitive crowd thinking this a good thing.

    Thankfully, we can still express our dislike, or hate, with Custom Lists, I think. But this whole thing does leave me to worry about the negative heart button on other things being removed, and lists being restrictive to positive things only. Whose to say, the "positive only" crowd won't try to get the button removed on anime, manga, or characters too? I hate saying this, but I don't have much faith in this site's staff not to pander to such cries if they were to come. No offense you guys, but you haven't done anything to really disprove that you wouldn't do that. The site feels so constrictive with what type of opinion you can have already, more so when things like this happen. Slowly it feels like freedom is being lost here despite all the good you are trying to do.

    I thank the staff for trying to protect us from potentially dangerous situations, that's really all I can thank you for on this matter.
    malign and LavanderGirl like this.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  4. ShinShini

    ShinShini Well-Known Member

    That's hilarious.
  5. g3data

    g3data Well-Known Member

    Posted by g3data on Jun 8, 2019
    I don't really see the issue here. As I see it, these "hates" are a basic indicator that people don't like your work, and not the equivalent to overly cruel and demeaning comments. Ratios like this aren't the same as detailed feedback, but if a lot of people are clicking "hate", then it at least tells you something honest about how people are interacting with your content.

    Yes it's demoralizing but if some vague, contextless, negative ratings are enough to make you quit, then you lack conviction.
    malign and LavanderGirl like this.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  6. DawnHibiki

    DawnHibiki New Member

    So glad that this option has been removed for the voice actors. If I want to critique someone, I would have to be constructive rather than just hate.
  7. Saeryen

    Saeryen Well-Known Member

    My big problem with “hate” for people is that it’s just a single word with some really bad context. It means literally “I don’t like you,” not “I don’t like your work.” People also say they “hate” others who they really despise and may even be okay if they died.

    So, yeah. I don’t think it’s useful to have something up there that can easily be interpreted as “I’d be happy if you died.”
    BrainBlow, DawnHibiki and Nicknames like this.
  8. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    Posted by sothis on Jun 8, 2019
    This was a decision made by me personally, the site owner, because of the type of inclusive community I want to promote here. So the "positive only" crowd you're referring to is me, and I'll continue to make similar choices to promote that sort of community, when needed.

    There's plenty of other communities out there with more "freedom" to troll/spread toxicity, if that's the sort of community that interests you. Anime-Planet isn't one of them.

    Sincerely, sothis, proud member of team sensitive crowd (and the community is better for it)
  9. randomredneck

    randomredneck Well-Known Member

  10. Armani

    Armani Member

    Posted by Armani on Jun 9, 2019
    In other words, you went full on dictator without even considering an alternative option let alone talking about it with your community first? This of course proving the point that you care only for one type of opinion, and pandering to said crowd. You don't care that you could be hurting people as long as you get that only type of thinking. You know, there is no harm in getting a different view and talking things over before making a decision.

    What sportsman like behavior to speak of your competition like that. Did MAL, Kitsu, AniDB, or Anilist not baby proof themselves enough? Are you not afraid they'll be hurt by your words *insert sarcasm emoji*? I'm glad they don't. And I'm glad to see a little negativity from you on them for not doing so. It both shows your hypocrisy, and that you don't mind dishing out some negativity when you get the chance to, which shows you're not a complete positive shill.

    In your opinion. But if we go by reality it's more like your trying to silence one part of freedom of expression Karen.
    LavanderGirl likes this.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  11. ShinShini

    ShinShini Well-Known Member

    You sound ridiculous. These kind of phrases and this way of speaking is the same as used in redpill or incel subreddits. Get out of the echo-chamber and re-evaluate your life, seriously, nobody should use words like "snowflake bubble" or calling people "Karen" unironically. Turn off the Internet once in a while or you'll lose touch with reality.

    Edit: Improved phrasing to avoid possible misunderstandings.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  12. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    Posted by sothis on Jun 9, 2019
    Actually, these decisions are made based on both community feedback/support, and depending on the situation, plain old respect/dignity for the users (such as implementing the Code of Conduct which explicitly disallows harassment of all types). As site owner, it's my duty and responsibility to set the direction of the community. In Anime-Planet's case, I choose inclusion over exclusion. It's interesting that you'd assume these decisions are made via firing from the hip, with no consideration as to the other options. I could assure you that that isn't the case, but you've already made up your mind for some reason, so.

    You are, of course, welcome to disagree with that direction that's been made for Anime-Planet, and it's ultimately your decision as a user to decide which type of community you'd like to participate in.

    Disallowing harassment or toxic behavior "hurts people"? Huh.

    Yep, disallowing harassment or toxic behavior does silence people who would harass and exhibit toxic behavior. That's sort of how it goes. If disallowing harassment fosters a more inclusive community, that's a definite win for the community, and the majority of feedback I've received (through public statements, private emails, social media channels, etc) agrees with that decision.
    BrainBlow, Kari5, sanane and 10 others like this.
  13. RascaI

    RascaI Well-Known Member

    Posted by RascaI on Jun 9, 2019
    Yes, and
    Y E S.

    It hasn't been put better than this so far. Political correctness and sensitivity often go too far and starts crowding in on freedom of expression, however, that has nothing to do with this specific change. It's not at all a stretch to say that a feature that lets you mark people as hated may be taken as a sign that there are people that hate that person, and if that person were to see that page they'd essentially be getting a list of people that hate them, something that no other decent website really has, and simply put it just isn't constructive.

    So why have a problem with it? IDK. It's not like anyone's telling you you can't dislike someone's work or express that in other ways, other than literally putting your name on a "list of haters" for someone who is real and has feelings.

    Put forth effort and fight for stuff that actually harms you and your freedoms, not something like this which literally all it does is prevent a few possible hurt feelings while restricting nobody.
  14. DarkFireFae

    DarkFireFae New Member

    Interesting reasoning. I personally never felt comfortable using the "hate button" for actual people. Characters, sure, but real people, no.

    If you don't like someone or their work it's simple, don't hit the heart button.

    It's not about being overly sensitive. If someone wants to gauge their work based on these icons the hearts have counters. The additional hate counter was unnecessary. More popular people will have more hearts.

    I personally enjoy the fact this site doesn't limit how many people or characters you can "love" ❤️
  15. AnnaSartin

    AnnaSartin Database Moderator

    I feel the need to interject here and point out that no one said anything negative about the above sites you mentioned. Sothis merely pointed out that if you are seeking a community that fosters negativity, you need to look elsewhere. Anime-Planet seeks to nurture inclusiveness for our users, staff members, official partners, and anyone in the industry who may want to drop by and see what we are about. I'm frankly baffled that something as small as the removal of a dislike button is triggering this much of a reaction from you. No one is stifling your freedom of expression, there are plenty of ways you can express yourself without it.
  16. LadyPsychic

    LadyPsychic Well-Known Member

    I'm okay with this decision. To be honest, I never used the "hate" button for people anyways, only for characters. In fact, until I saw this thread I didn't even realize we couldn't "hate" people anymore.
    Nitroglycerin and Nicknames like this.
  17. Armani

    Armani Member

    Forgive me, but your first reply
    made it sound as if you did make such decisions in rapid fire instead of being considerate. You are trying, I can tell, but I do have a very hard time believing it true though, as you guessed. You're not very transparent in the process of how these decisions come about. It feels as if you cut us out, not taking the time to get the whole involved and just perhaps a select few, or by your wording just yourself. It would be better if we could see such decision taking place, or even a vote before it goes into effect. This way we can see what is going on behind that brick wall, and get a say in before an overall decision is made. But as such is not done, and there being no air of transparency on your end, it feels as it the decisions are made out of nowheresville, and that you close off any attempt to try to find a possible alternative in a situation.

    Much similar to MAL who came out of nowhere with some of its decisions, and then refused to listen to a mass backlash on some of those things. They even went so far as to try to silence discussions on the topic by locking threads when it didn't go in their favor. It's frustrating when you feel as if the staff have little regard, and pander only to a certain type of crowd.

    Grouping all who has a negative opinion under the umbrella term of toxic behavior and/or harassment is harmful. As said, there are toxics on both sides of the coin, but not everyone is so. People need to learn the difference between what is truly toxic, and harassment instead of lumping every little thing that doesn't fit their perspective as such.

    Would you really say someone who said something like; "I hated this. The characters were much too annoying for my liking. The storytelling interested me little. And the over bright and over the place animation made me nauseous." , as someone who is toxic? Harassing? Perhaps a bit harsh in wording in your opinion, but this is far from toxic behavior.

    Now something like this; " Go kill yourself you worthless pieces of maggots meat!!! You deserve to rot in the deepest bowls of hell for this massive atrocity you made!!! ", is toxic behavior/harassment.

    Would say A should be grouped in with B just because they are both negative? I don't believe so, but by your actions and wording this is what it looks like you are trying to do. So it seems we even with a remote disagreement get lumped in with that type of crowd you're trying to fight. This also unintentionally teaches some that all forms of negative opinions are inherently bad, and should try to be silenced.

    No, it really does not. It may make it a bit difficult, but resilient and crafty people will make their opinion heard one way or another. Even on here. This decision is like a minor bump in the road. And, this really isn't fostering a inclusive community when you are grouping all types of negative opinions underneath one umbrella, and trying to exclude them while teaching a few that any opinion that doesn't beat that positive drum is bad. You are also fostering toxic behavior by such actions, cause there are people who will think it ok to attack, make fun of, try to silence, or bully the person who has the dared opposite opinion even if the person was entirely respectful. You are saying it is ok to say anyone with a different view that isn't positive is toxic.

    I get your dream of wanting a community accepting of both types of opinions without the insults, mocking, fire breathing, political correct, lizards baring down on your neck. But life isn't that way, and our attempts at trying to force on specific type out sometimes ends up hurting others unintentionally. As the case here, you are trying to force the real toxics out but you are hurting those that aren't at the same time, and potentially creating a place that fosters toxicity on other side of the coin. Your are being an exclusionist while trying to hide under the banner of inclusion. If you want complete inclusion, people with a negative opinion have to be included to. A tweaking to the rules, and a clear understanding what constitutes as toxic behavior might help that. In hindsight though, nothing you really do can stop toxicity from your door. There are always going to be people who allow their emotions to rule responses, who love to troll, who think themselves above rules, etc. But having consideration and understanding might help just that little bit more in your fight for that dream.

    I think though you and I may just have to agree to disagree on this though. We both have our stubborn views on this matter, and if not careful we may go down a bad road with our debate which is not something either of us want, I think. That aside though, I would like to apologize if I was a bit fiery in my reply to your first reply. It sounded like you wanted to bite my head off , and me being in a slight frustrated mood already might have let emotion take over a bit there. So sorry if there was some bite in my tone.

    By that wording sothis is insinuating that the other listing sites' communities are nothing but toxic, and love to troll others. And trying to group together, silence, and exclude all types of negative opinion is not being inclusive, and, while not entirely, is a damage to freedom of expression.
    LavanderGirl likes this.
  18. AnnaSartin

    AnnaSartin Database Moderator

    No, she was not insinuating that the other listing sites' communities are "nothing but toxic". She was stating the fact that toxic communities online exist. You decided on your own that she was attacking her competitors, and tried to assign actions to her that were completely false. And no one is excluding all types of negative opinion, proven by the fact that you're having no difficulty expressing it here. Frankly, you're taking this entire issue far too seriously and completely out of context, but that's your prerogative.
  19. Thrawn


    I'm cool with this, we can still hate on characters and that's what really matters.
  20. Zed

    Zed Database Moderator

    Posted by Zed on Jun 10, 2019
    I'd like to see how not being able to rate the creator himself, rather than his work somehow impacts your freedom. Comments and reviews exist to give constructive criticism and pointless overly negative/positive commentary, you know, the places where constructive criticism and silly opinions belong, or at least are supposed to be posted.
    BrainBlow, Saeryen, Kari5 and 4 others like this.

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