New Feature: Life on Manga Bar

Discussion in 'Site Announcements' started by sothis, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    there are 18,000+ manga in the database, and finding accurate chapter counts is only possible for a small percentage. There's no way we can come up with the kind of custom solution you're looking for with this scale, hence why it has to be a rough estimate.

    What you suggest still isn't a one-size-fits-all solution and would still be inaccurate, as well. Often vols that have 12 chapters are because the chapters are really really short (10 pages or less), often with comedy series. So if we somehow were able to get chapter info for all 18,000+ series (literally impossible with the vast majority), giving time based only on chapter count would be equally as inaccurate.

    The only way to do a 100% accurate solution would be to manually set some sort of time/duration for all 18,000+ manga individually. Coding that would be a complete nightmare with extremely low payoff in comparison, but beyond that we don't have the massive resources needed to actually go fill in all of that data, test it, etc.

    tl;dr I realize it's not 100% accurate, but hopefully this strengthens the reasoning of why it's just not possible to do it any other way.
  2. Sianeka

    Sianeka Well-Known Member

    I guess there is really no good way, and your estimate is as decent a method as any, but still, MOST manga I have read (may be only the limited genres I have read, I admit) have way more than only 6 chapters. And take a lot longer to read than 30 minutes...

    I guess what you are saying is that this is doomed from the start to be wildly inaccurate, by its nature and design. Maybe it WOULD be an easier option to have people able to opt out of displaying this on their page?
  3. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    I wouldn't call it 'wildly inaccurate'. Based on the research I did, 30 mins is a solid/accurate average for a volume of manga. There might be outliers, and there might be people who read way faster or way slower, but this is a 'best approximation' for the standard bell curve of users.
  4. randomredneck

    randomredneck Well-Known Member

    I hate to sound like a broken record, but if that's the case, you really shouldn't have bothered with this feature.
  5. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    Yes, you are being a broken record.
  6. Armani

    Armani Member

    Well, I'm glad to see that the manga section is getting some more attention. Now if only there was a way to change my sig over to life on manga rather than anime, then I'd be happy. Not that I don't mind the "Life on anime" bar on the sigs, its just that I sort of prefer reading a little more.

    Exactly. No one can gouge another person's reading speed. As Drahken pointed out, some people may read a manga they are highly interested in faster, and some may read it slower, and in vise versa. On top of it, forcing them to keep track of that would be very annoying. So approximations is a necessity here.

    However, I do agree that five minutes on chapters and 30 minutes on volumes is a little too quick for some. I don't think the fact that site errors could hinder how quick one may be able to read, or that the person may be doing other things at the time was taken into consideration. So I think the time approximation should be heightened a little. 10 minutes for chapters and maybe an hour for volumes might be more reasonable. Just a suggestion.:sweat:

    Thinking about some chapters being 40 pages, or over, long maybe that time for chapters should be upped to 15 instead now.

    Eh, I never really cared about the whole "life on anime" stuff really. My life on anime on Hummingbird is lower than it is here. Don't know about manga there since they don't have a measurement for that yet. So I don't really mind how my life is measured on so and so really. But I can see why people are upset with such a low time approximation, reason for the suggestion of heightening it a tad.

    (Speaking of chapters, I need to head over to the Manga thread to update some of the ones I am reading ).

    Now the only other thing I am holding out hope for, apart from the character edits/additions becoming open again, is for a Not Helpful button in reviews, even if it is beyond hope at this point. (One can dream can't they?)
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  7. Drahken

    Drahken Cross-eyed Cyclops

    Some mangas do indeed have long chapters, but others have short chapters that even the slowest reader could burn through in about a minute.
    As far as volumes & the number of chapters in each, as sothis mentioned, the ones with lots of chapters tend to have very short chapters. Manga volumes are all close to the same physical size (not counting special bunko editions & the like), and they simply adjust the number of chapters in accordance with the length of each chapter. Using a set time for all volumes is perfectly reasonable.
  8. randomredneck

    randomredneck Well-Known Member

    It is not reasonable. If there's a very large margin of error for a whole host of different manga, it's just innaccurate. Heck, maybe saying something like "Estimated Life On Manga" would make people not notice this. I know I wouldn't have. And since I feel as though I'm repeating myself, I shall take my leave of this particular thread.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Posted by Guest on Sep 16, 2015
    Give him a break, he lost his mustache recently.


    And -- Are there going to be Time On Manga Badges now? I feel like my question got ignored. :crying:
  10. Damias

    Damias Well-Known Member

    I recall that a possible reason is that there isn't anyone who could volunteer to create the badges. Thus it being put on hold?
  11. Drahken

    Drahken Cross-eyed Cyclops

    Surprisingly, random actually had a good idea under all that. Renaming the feature to "estimated" life on manga would be a good idea. After all, life on anime can be conclusively determined since each anime has a specific runtime, but as mentioned multiple times in this thread, manga reading can only be estimated at best.

    ...Now, if random would just learn to put forth constructive criticism like this from the outset instead of just shouting out "OMG, this is horrible, wtf were you thinking?! get rid of it!", all of this drama could have been avoided.
  12. Kishi97

    Kishi97 New Member

    Well you cant count like that.. Cuz some chapters have 5 pages which take less then 30 seconds and some have 90 pages which can take 10 minutes... and some volumes have 5-7 chapters(5-90 pages for each chapter)....And not every chapter has a same number of pages...
  13. TonyTonyChopper1

    TonyTonyChopper1 New Member

    Even if it's gonna change it's never gonna be right for me anyway ... so i can keep taking this with grain of salt.
    I mean i said 5 hours for one volume but it could but it could be up to 8/10 hours for me also even if you say 5 minutes for a chapter most volumes are 10-11 chapters so there's no way that can be right unless you're going insanly fast !!!
    The problem i have with that is that i still wanna take in the art i shamefully need to admit i have never read more then 110 pages in one go ...
  14. AngryJellyfish

    AngryJellyfish Active Member

    Nice feature... don't think I've ever read a single volume (of average length, 180 - 200 pages) in less than an hour, though. :P
  15. Sianeka

    Sianeka Well-Known Member

    Just sayin' - not sure of the research behind sothis' reasoning, but the general community here seems to have come to a consensus in this thread that an average volume of manga of approximately 200 pages takes longer than a half hour to read, or 6+ pages per minute. Most people are taking a bit longer, to appreciate the artwork, as well as read/take in the story...
  16. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    At least one of the major research sources was a Crunchyroll thread about this subject, it had dozens and dozens and dozens of pages and the extreme majority (95% or more of all people who responded) was the 30 minute figure.

    7 people have replied here saying they likely take more than 30 minutes. i'd hardly call that a 'consensus'.
  17. randomredneck

    randomredneck Well-Known Member

    Of course CrunchyRoll has a huge response. It's CrunchyRoll. They have like, a million users. A-P usually has 20 forum users on at once on any given day. You can't really cite the number difference from a huger site an affirmation that your correct.

    Even Drahken said my mention of adding "Estimated" wasn't a terrible idea.
  18. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    Well yes, AP doesn't have many active forum users. The point is there was a very huge and very consistent response on there, which seems to be a more reasonable thing to go off of than 7 people here saying it doesn't fit with their style. That would be 7 people deciding how a feature works for the 400,000 users we have here on A-P. It doesn't make sense.

    There are no plans to change the string to 'estimated'. If people are confused by the count, they'll be pointed to a thread (this or another) that explains the calculation.
  19. Zaig

    Zaig Well-Known Member

    Posted by Zaig on Sep 20, 2015
    Three key words right there. In a thread revealing an established feature, there is higher incentive for one to voice their disagreement with something that's already been decided (for now) than for those to come here and state they agree. I haven't reviewed the polling thread on Crunchyroll, but when it was originally made, each person would have had an equal amount to gain by participating.

    Crunchyroll's primary service is streaming anime, with providing manga as a secondary service, so reading speed should have been skewed more towards anime watchers like Anime-Planet's main audience. I would expect the results that sothis obtained to be accurately representative of AP.

    Though I do agree that Estimated being added is a good idea at least until the ability to customize how your Life on Manga is calculated comes around.
  20. sothis

    sothis Forum Moderator Anime-Planet Founder Developer

    Just a side note/tip, deleted posts are visible by mods. So I'd like to clarify that me saying only 7 people here doesn't equate to the research I did elsewhere, doesn't equate to 'opinions on CR are more important than my userbase here'. Nor is it an indication that I don't care about the userbase (that claim is kind of absurd, but you are welcome to your opinion)

    If a huge amount of people chimed in here and said the amount is way off (remember, there are 400,000 users on the site), ofc I would entertain the idea of changing it. The research done on comparable sites with much more engagement was the basis of the current figure, and unless for some reason AP is an extreme anomaly and our 400,000 users don't overlap at all than sites like CR, it's a good guess that the figure is accurate for most of the userbase here as well.

    Those 7 opinions in here do matter, but it would be an exaggeration to say that equates to a majority opinion of Anime-Planet users.

    Finally, I'm totally open to constructive criticism or dislike of a feature. What I am not open to is passive aggressive statements (such as 'so thanks for that') or vitriol that is an over exaggeration. Especially when it comes from regulars.
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