Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation - Part II

[tootalls]

are you telling me that surgical castration, chemical castration and intensive psychological therapy wont stop a pedophile from feeling the urge to abuse children? seriously? where do you think the urge to get laid comes from? magic???

zamn.

i dont want to make assumptions about you, but youre talking crazy if you think that there arent options to alleviate people of sexual desire. if it werent for my studies, you might have made me think all hope was lost for potential abuse victims and the pedos themselves.

please do the research before saying stuff like "no cure" (cure is a weird word, i think alleviation and precaution is most accurate)

isnt it funny, the kinds of mental gymnastics people can perform to defend the most dangerous of mindsets?

i think i would like to stop here before whats left of my liquified brain is lost to this madness

There is no cure. you have to understand it's in the mind, more than it is the body. The body enhances what the mind already wants. While castration certainly can numb the sex drive. The interest in children will still remain. And that's the route of it all when I say no cure. Nothing can change the sexual preference for children if it exist.

Imagine looking at an attractive face of the gender of your preference. That person appeals to your preference, but chances are the face itself isn't enough to initiate arousal or anything. And that's basically what castration would do, make those less likely to act out, but it will not remove that preference, that is there to stay, no matter what.

And if you agree "cure" is a "weird word". and does not describe what castration would be doing, why write this aggressive comment being mad that I said there is no cure when you seem to agree that statement is the truth?

If you read further comments beyond that, you'd see I actually agreed with castration being an option for those struggling with strong urges.

 

[evilneko]

What a great season. Binged the whole 12 episodes today and it went by really fast. Lately anime felt a little bit dragging for me but here every episode felt like 10 minutes max.
The world building feels really top-notch for an isekai, even if this season featured a lot of places and different regions. The same goes for major characters: every characters struggles and growth felt thought through and tangible.
Also i loved what they did with the OP, using background scenes of the current location and sometimes some chill on-the-road scenes instead of a traditional OP. Wouldn't mind if this style spreads a bit more throughout the industry.
Little bit of nitpick: it would have been great if we saw Rudy working on his magic more. Eris gets stronger throughout the season in a believable pace, which felt great to watch. Rudy on the other hand appears to be on the same level as before the season (although Eris stated that he practices daily in the final episode).
9 / 10, really great and hoping for season 2 soon.

The season does cover quite a bit of time. Bear in mind Rudy was already insanely high level for his age. What he lacks is practical combat experience. He could learn a thing or two about use of magic in combat from Gus or Will in The Faraway Paladin. You know, the subtle part of "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger."

My main complaint with the world is that aside from Ruijerd, there's not a single truly decent man on the planet. Not one who's a significant character that we know much about, anyway. All of the characters who aren't terrible people, or who appear decent but have some horrible flaw making them arguably terrible, are women. And for the most part, it's men who are in positions of power. It must be terrible to be a woman in this world. Even if a woman can become, say, captain of the guard, doesn't matter much if the prince whose guard you're captain of is a shitstain of the worst order.

And mandatory tangent regarding MC: i don't get the hate. In those 12 episodes i haven't seen anything major problematic. Just a very sad man prior to reincarnation and a very horny boy after reincarnation. And FYI: i don't intend to waste any time responding to haters, nothing i say will change your views and nothing you say will change mine. So just let it be at agree to disagree :)

I take it you've only watched the anime? I talked about this earlier in the thread, and you demonstrate exactly what I meant. There are three distinct impressions one might have of the characters. Someone who's read the fan-translated novels will have the absolute worst opinion of Rudeus, Paul, and hell, the work in general. Someone who read the official translation will still have a terrible opinion of them, but somewhat less, because the official version is very much toned down. And someone who's only watched the anime will have the most charitable views of the characters.

I haven't really read either of them but, because I couldn't understand the hate train going on in the first season thread I went to look things up in the novels, and that's when I discovered the differences. I decided a while back though to judge the anime-- strictly on its own. It is much easier to buy what the anime's trying to sell that way: that Rudeus is improving and growing as a person. So, if you haven't read or looked at the novels, do yourself a favor and keep it that way.

Judged only on what is shown in the anime Rudy is very much like his father. Then again, up until the disaster, Paul, for all his flaws and poor behavior, is Rudy's best male role-model. The Boreas family is worse. Is it really any wonder that the apple didn't fall very far from the tree? At least Rudy seems to have more self control, though. He's had some very perverted thoughts, to put it mildly, but hasn't acted on them except for a few times (I'm thinking specifically of: swiping a pair of Roxy's panties, removing them from a sleeping Eris, and barely stopping himself when Eris came to his room), and only really in the first season (there's the peeping incident in s2, but that's small potatoes, and would be expected of a boy his age, from an in-world perspective). In other words: he gets better over time. Again: easier to buy the whole turning over a new leaf idea if you leave the novel baggage behind. (Insert comment about Netflix Bebop here, although that still sucks because of Vicious)

 

[Sajonji]

The season does cover quite a bit of time. Bear in mind Rudy was already insanely high level for his age. What he lacks is practical combat experience. He could learn a thing or two about use of magic in combat from Gus or Will in The Faraway Paladin. You know, the subtle part of "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger."

My main complaint with the world is that aside from Ruijerd, there's not a single truly decent man on the planet. Not one who's a significant character that we know much about, anyway. All of the characters who aren't terrible people, or who appear decent but have some horrible flaw making them arguably terrible, are women. And for the most part, it's men who are in positions of power. It must be terrible to be a woman in this world. Even if a woman can become, say, captain of the guard, doesn't matter much if the prince whose guard you're captain of is a shitstain of the worst order.

True Rudy was on quite the magic level already, but through the whole 2 years this season spans at least for me it felt like he didn't try to improve. Like i guess if he'd train he could maybe levitate with his air-shockwaves. Or something else. Ofc i know the anime follows the novel, so they don't have the liberty there, but it still felt a bit lackluster, especially compared to season 1 (which is understandable since he was younger and learning everything in season 1).

Regarding decent men, there are the beastmen in episodes 3 and 4. But apart from that i completely agree, i couldn't remember others either.

I take it you've only watched the anime? I talked about this earlier in the thread, and you demonstrate exactly what I meant. There are three distinct impressions one might have of the characters. Someone who's read the fan-translated novels will have the absolute worst opinion of Rudeus, Paul, and hell, the work in general. Someone who read the official translation will still have a terrible opinion of them, but somewhat less, because the official version is very much toned down. And someone who's only watched the anime will have the most charitable views of the characters.

I haven't really read either of them but, because I couldn't understand the hate train going on in the first season thread I went to look things up in the novels, and that's when I discovered the differences. I decided a while back though to judge the anime-- strictly on its own. It is much easier to buy what the anime's trying to sell that way: that Rudeus is improving and growing as a person. So, if you haven't read or looked at the novels, do yourself a favor and keep it that way.

Judged only on what is shown in the anime Rudy is very much like his father. Then again, up until the disaster, Paul, for all his flaws and poor behavior, is Rudy's best male role-model. The Boreas family is worse. Is it really any wonder that the apple didn't fall very far from the tree? At least Rudy seems to have more self control, though. He's had some very perverted thoughts, to put it mildly, but hasn't acted on them except for a few times (I'm thinking specifically of: swiping a pair of Roxy's panties, removing them from a sleeping Eris, and barely stopping himself when Eris came to his room), and only really in the first season (there's the peeping incident in s2, but that's small potatoes, and would be expected of a boy his age, from an in-world perspective). In other words: he gets better over time. Again: easier to buy the whole turning over a new leaf idea if you leave the novel baggage behind. (Insert comment about Netflix Bebop here, although that still sucks because of Vicious)

Yes, anime only here. I also heard already in season 1 that the novel sheds another light on the character. But then again, why would anime only watchers need to keep up with a seemingly very different character in the novel ? I don't think they / we / me have to. I too will stick to the anime and judge only what is in there. And from an anime only perspective, season 2 was even tamer than season 1. If somebody really wants to discuss the novel, there is a thread for the novel.
I guess this is also just another iteration of "doesn't matter if something / somebody has 100 positive things, if there is even 1 minor bad thing, that thing / that person is the epitome of evil and must be destroyed". I don't support that agenda irl and neither in anime.
But at least for me the rating of 4.4 here and 8.8 on MAL speaks for itself. Meaning that most people can look beyond a little flaw in the character and enjoy a great show for what it is. And only a small but loud minority getting hung up on minor issue.

 

[KazeVongola]

Oh boy, after reading all this arguing I really don't feel like joining in, so I'll make it short and simple.

Rudy was a self absorbed piece of shit to the very end, but what got him back up is the thought of saving his (new) mother, yet again hinting to his growth, slow as it may be. Seeing more of his background, namely that he got bullied for standing up to scum when no one else did, made his PL even more sympathetic. It still doesn't excuse his behavior as Rudy and after "that" incident I'll never be able to see him in a positive light, but I will praise him for all the good he's done, some of which were portrayed in this episode, which was a nice touch, especially after ep11.

One last thing I'll mention is the reveal of Sylphie at the end of the episode, which both made me relieved to see her alive and well, but disappointed at the fact that she seemed to end up as a short haired brooding tomboy (goes against my personal tastes). Was really hoping to see a more feminine mature Sylhpie, but that's just me, you can't make everyone happy.

In conclusion, yet another amazing season with great writing, as for ep12 it ended tastefully with no major cliffhangers. Hopefully we'll eventually get a season 3.

 

[nikutheotaku]

The last time I jumped on a hype train was for Re:ZERO and I can honestly say that it was such a let-down that I had to take a break from the isekai genre entirely. Mushoku Tensei became the saving grace for me and it was worth sacrificing my study hours to complete this thing in 4 days.

Only minor complaint is that Rudy needs to learn about restraint because the only thing that really pissed me off was his (most of the time) inappropriate "sexual escapades." Look, I like a bold MC but they need to have at least some sense of control. I'm not too worried about that though because his development throughout S1 was much better than any isekai protagonist I've seen in a while. Looking forward to how the kid matures over time (hopefully).

I guess this is also just another iteration of "doesn't matter if something / somebody has 100 positive things, if there is even 1 minor bad thing, that thing / that person is the epitome of evil and must be destroyed". I don't support that agenda irl and neither in anime.
But at least for me the rating of 4.4 here and 8.8 on MAL speaks for itself. Meaning that most people can look beyond a little flaw in the character and enjoy a great show for what it is. And only a small but loud minority getting hung up on minor issue.

Couldn't have said it any better. It's anime so honestly why let those flaws dig deeper into our skins than necessary.

Spoiler: Episode 12/23

You gotta f*cking love it when depression gets kicked right in the ass like that. Shit got too sad too fast but mommy Zenith came in clutch. I think it's safe to say:

 

[evilneko]

All that and I didn't even mention anything about the final episode. But first:

I guess this is also just another iteration of "doesn't matter if something / somebody has 100 positive things, if there is even 1 minor bad thing, that thing / that person is the epitome of evil and must be destroyed". I don't support that agenda irl and neither in anime.
But at least for me the rating of 4.4 here and 8.8 on MAL speaks for itself. Meaning that most people can look beyond a little flaw in the character and enjoy a great show for what it is. And only a small but loud minority getting hung up on minor issue.

I don't think it's quite that. I think it really comes down to how a given viewer interprets Rudy's character, and how much they consider his new environment as mitigating factors. Basically how much of his personality is informed by his previous memories, vs how much is informed by his new ones. Taken out of the context of an isekai, he's basically on the level of your average ecchi anime protag. And much like an ecchi anime protag, he usually gets beaten up for it.

Anyway, for the final episode: Eris explaining that she felt "too dependent" on Rudy rings a bit shallow for me. They were all ultimately dependent on each other, I think she doesn't give herself enough credit. She felt she was always being protected by Rudy, which is only sort of true. Rudy and Rujierd probably wouldn't have made it on their own.

Kishirika, as expected, is a huge ham. An arc where she travels with Eris, Roxy, and maybe one or two others, would be insanely fun. Just imagine poor Roxy, trying to rein in those two even with the help of say Rudy or Ghislaine. Comedy gold right there, but also the potential for some pretty awesome stunts in a fight.

Speaking of Roxy, when she decided not to go find Rudy my immediate thought was, Dammit, Roxy! I honestly didn't think Rudy would get off his ass unless Roxy or somebody came over to kick it. The fact he did, IMO, tells us a lot, but one thing most of all: Rudy is definitively not the same person he was before being isekai'd. He's better than that.

That bit with Sylphie at the end though. She has different hair and eye colors now, but the same short hair, same ahoge, and who but Sylphie--the one person in the world who has never seen Rudeus at his worst or been deliberately mistreated by him--would speak that way of Rudeus? Even Eris wouldn't shower such glowing praise on him.

One last thing I'll mention is the reveal of Sylphie at the end of the episode, which both made me relieved to see her alive and well, but disappointed at the fact that she seemed to end up as a short haired brooding tomboy (goes against my personal tastes). Was really hoping to see a more feminine mature Sylhpie, but that's just me, you can't make everyone happy.

Eh, I don't think we can say she's a "brooding tomboy" yet. She has short hair, but she always had short hair. She uses "boku", but I think she always did. "Boku" does have connotations of masculinity, but I don't think it completely rules out Sylphie having femininity. We'll see when next season comes I'm sure.

 

[KazeVongola]

Eh, I don't think we can say she's a "brooding tomboy" yet. She has short hair, but she always had short hair. She uses "boku", but I think she always did. "Boku" does have connotations of masculinity, but I don't think it completely rules out Sylphie having femininity. We'll see when next season comes I'm sure.

Sure, I could have put it more lightly, but considering how in her past she had trouble with people thinking she's a boy (especially the boy she likes), you'd think she'd at least attempt to look and sound more feminine. I imagine she would have tried to drop the "bokuko" persona as well for the boy he likes, but then again as far as she knows Rudy might be long dead. It was just a gut reaction from me, since I'm usually extremely turned off by short haired girls (just a personal preference), so I was really hoping to see Sylphie looking more "traditional" elf-like. As for the brooding part, its more like she seemed overly serious in comparison to her old self, but seeing how her whole life got turned upside down, I think that's good of a reason as any. Anyway, I'm sure we'll find out more if a s3 ever happens.

 

[OmegaYami]

Anyway, for the final episode: Eris explaining that she felt "too dependent" on Rudy rings a bit shallow for me. They were all ultimately dependent on each other, I think she doesn't give herself enough credit. She felt she was always being protected by Rudy, which is only sort of true.

the anime can't go into details (budget and number of episodes are severely limited), which is why this kind of misunderstandings can happen. In the LN there are entire chapters of the same events seen through Eris's eyes, and the reader can fully understand how she feels. Even when she will stop being dependent, she will still be dependent.

Rudy and Rujierd probably wouldn't have made it on their own.

can't be 100% sure about Rudy, but... Ruijerd? the guy has been living in the Demon Continent for hundred years and is, rightfully, considered one of the strongest fighters there. To be more precise

Spoiler

he is an Emperor class warrior. To understand how powerful that is, just know that to have a chance at defeating an Emperor class, you need at least THREE King class.

Kishirika, as expected, is a huge ham.

ALL scenes with Kishirika will be memorable (it sad they cut so much content in the anime about her, especially the scene with her being wild in the tavern...)

 

[Himitsu23]

I haven't seen this much child porn since Log Horizon! This show is quite painful to watch when you have elements like a 40yo hikikomori (because it had to be something like that - if he were a gigachad in his previous life, 99.9% of the fanbase couldn't relate - or so the author of the story thought -_- ) in the body of a 11yo attempting to sex up a 13yo girl and a 6yo saying that she's confident she'll grow up to be quite voluptuous. No! That is so wrong on so many levels. I enjoy a burning pile of degenerate trash ecchi series that overdoses on the tits and ass (those in the same vein as Interspecies reviewers) from time to time as much as the next man, but Mushoku tensei (one of the worst titles ever) just finds now ways to sink to new lows: like that time they dedicated an entire episode to discuss the figurine of a 300yo loli.

 

[Xnub]

Unlike most other Isekai this one left me with heavy load of melancholy and a grim dark outlook going forward in the story.

Spoiler

After he gets shit on with the "You and i aren't well-matched right now" out of the blue i can't feel anything else really. The note was so vague that there was no way he wouldn't feel like shit and the watcher wouldn't either. Sad thing is her reason for leaving wasn't bad and if she explained it better to him in the note it could have saved so much pain. But the way things are its hard to see them being as close as they were after they meet up down the road with such a deep scare for him, not much hope.

That and all the other depressing stuff in show didn't help. There were very few upbeat moments in general. Other isekai will leave you with a upbeat or "the adventure continues" kind of feeling, not this show. That being said you do get the depth and grittiness of a real world adventure feel to the show because of the more depressing and edgy aspects of the show. So its not a horrible thing, just a different take.

Another sort of problem i had with the show was for a character made out to be so strong and dependable you never really see it. You only see him in one cool fight that makes you think he is kind of strong and its at the end of the show and he still lost. Apart from that he is always fucking up and being protected for most part. You never get that epic feel with him beside that one point, its disappointing.

The character development and depth was really really good at times though, can't say i disliked any of the characters. Even the ones you were suppose to hate were written well and had redeeming moments and growth.

Spoiler

Paul was scum of scum with the rape and cheating. Then being mostly unremorseful for it even at the end when he said he tried hard for a 4th child. But he also did try to be the best father he could be. He recognized his faults in the end and admit them and apologize to Rudy, that's HARD. He was trying his best .... not at keeping his dick in his pants though.

Eris was annoying at the start and not likeable at all that's not hard to see. But my god by the end she was a respectable, strong, caring, considerate and a really hard working person. It was so nice to watch her grow, she definitely became the best character in the show by far. Was a complete 180 when she got out into the adventuring world where she wanted to be with the one she loved Rudy. She made it onto my loved character list, even with that shitty note she left at the end.

I have to mention my favourite eps was 18 with Roxy and her parents. That had some strong feels for me with the whole "Words weren't what mattered". I know it probably wasn't most peoples favourite, but it just hit me right. Really need more Roxy in the show.

Love the slow age progression of the show. Getting to see the character go from birth to end of there story at a slow pace is really cool and i look forward to the next seasons. Hoping for more Roxy in S2 ... maybe even a pair up with Eris !

S1 - 4.5/5 closer to a 4 at times.
S2 - 4.5/5 the stronger of the two by far and solid 4.5

 

[Kirikekiri]

I just love this anime because they really got the perfect choice of voice actors. Hearing the voice actor doesn't has to act much, just be himself for the NEET guy keeps cracking me up.

 

[Iwashiro]

How can they mix in so much utter trash elements of ultra crinch creepy perverted contend and childish shonen thought concepts and get a "Mature Themes" tag... uff, this show is getting really worse from episode to episode and eventually nearly impossible to watch.

 

[evilneko]

Watched the special that came out recently.

It was full of Eris being Eris. It was entirely Eris. Especially Extraordinary Eris. Also that action that this show does so well, when it finally decides to do it.

I fucking love Eris and I hope 2nd season frequently checks in on her journey with Ghislaine. No offense to Sylphie, she's cute and all, but I'm not sure she can carry a show like Eris. Perhaps with a bit of help from Kishirika and Roxy, though...

 

[Curiousmadra]

Watched the special that came out recently.

It was full of Eris being Eris. It was entirely Eris. Especially Extraordinary Eris. Also that action that this show does so well, when it finally decides to do it.

I fucking love Eris and I hope 2nd season frequently checks in on her journey with Ghislaine. No offense to Sylphie, she's cute and all, but I'm not sure she can carry a show like Eris. Perhaps with a bit of help from Kishirika and Roxy, though...

I want S2 to come already like I hope they do expand Sylphies personality than just the girl Rudy likes the most..

 

[Rascal]

I think one of the most annoying things of all time is how well crafted in presentation this anime is for a fucking isekai about a fat pedophile in the body of a child

If it weren't so held back inherently by its premise it would actually be good.

 

[tootalls]

I think one of the most annoying things of all time is how well crafted in presentation this anime is for a fucking isekai about a fat pedophile in the body of a child

If it weren't so held back inherently by its premise it would actually be good.

I don't know how the premise holds it back in any way.

It's actually a great setup compared to the vast majority of isekai.

Think about it, most of these types of shows start off with some sad otaku that goes outside and gets run over or stabbed or something, kinda like this did BUT it's usually a throwaway scene JUST to get the show to where it ACTUALLY wants to be, and often a forgotten aspect of the show that is so irrelevant to the actual show you wonder why it didn't just start off in the fantasy world to begin with (Because they just wanted their show to be classified as an isekai is why).

This show has a premise that's actually a part of the show, nobody forgets what it is, and you can see how it drives the actions of the character. To me, there really aren't many better isekai setups.

EDIT: the more I think about it, I really do realize the protag in most isekai that I've watched at least have been NEET characters or just plain unpopular. Best premise I can think of is probably Gate in terms of evenly merging both worlds rather than throwing 1 completely away. And then Sonny Boy was interesting, but not executed very well IMO.

 

[Rascal]

I don't know how the premise holds it back in any way.

It's actually a great setup compared to the vast majority of isekai.

Think about it, most of these types of shows start off with some sad otaku that goes outside and gets run over or stabbed or something, kinda like this did BUT it's usually a throwaway scene JUST to get the show to where it ACTUALLY wants to be, and often a forgotten aspect of the show that is so irrelevant to the actual show you wonder why it didn't just start off in the fantasy world to begin with (Because they just wanted their show to be classified as an isekai is why).

This show has a premise that's actually a part of the show, nobody forgets what it is, and you can see how it drives the actions of the character. To me, there really aren't many better isekai setups.

I kinda wish it was a throwaway aspect honestly because then it would be easier to forget about it and enjoy the show

 

[tootalls]

I kinda wish it was a throwaway aspect honestly because then it would be easier to forget about it and enjoy the show

Well I think that's just more of a YOU problem than it is a problem with the show's premise.

You think too deeply about the actions of a fictional character and it seems you feel a protagonist needs to be a saint in order to enjoy the show.

You COULD just look at it like a death note sort of thing. Light Yagami is one of the most loved and hated characters on this site. To me he was well written but I hated him and his actions which was a testament to how well written he was. You could view him as a protagonist if you choose and root for him, I chose to root against him and see him as an antagonist that we got to see a lot of perspective from. Light never ruined death note for me despite how much I hated him.

You don't have to view Rudy as a protagonist, you can root for his downfall and take joy in moments when he loses or feels down. Regardless of what you feel about Rudy, he's undeniably a rather realistic character. A victim of circumstance that molds his perspective and actions.


Well, unlike Death note, that more or less revolved around the actions of Light, This show feels more like a world, that would be interesting whether we were following rudy or any other character that doesn't just remain in one setting doing mundane things. But I'd vote against eliminating characters like Rudy JUST BECAUSE he makes SOME people uncomfortable. At that point you may as well remove all the Greyrat men, and the perverted prince. At that point you're introducing kid gloves to this show, that'd rob the show of it's mature edge, one of those things that separates it from a typical generic family-friendly isekai.

 

[randomredneck]

I think one of the most annoying things of all time is how well crafted in presentation this anime is for a fucking isekai about a fat pedophile in the body of a child

If it weren't so held back inherently by its premise it would actually be good.

Thank you, person with sense.

 

[Sajonji]

Think about it, most of these types of shows start off with some sad otaku that goes outside and gets run over or stabbed or something, kinda like this did BUT it's usually a throwaway scene JUST to get the show to where it ACTUALLY wants to be, and often a forgotten aspect of the show that is so irrelevant to the actual show you wonder why it didn't just start off in the fantasy world to begin with (Because they just wanted their show to be classified as an isekai is why).

That aspect is really why for me Mushoku Tensei is so much better than other Isekais. MT tells a coherent story with & about characters. Whereas most mediocre isekais just have a MC with as few personality traits as possible (probably that as much viewers as possible can self-insert) and drop them into another world. Rudy feels like a full character, wether you like him or not, instead of just a self-insertion-device.

Maybe there is some aspect of how Japanese work & adult life is so vastly different from US and Europe that there is a great audience that wants to escape their shit reality and self insert into a fantasy world, but at least for me here in Europe that is not the case. I like being me, and watch anime or media in general to experience stories & characters. No need for me to be in the story.