I'm here for the gay (the LGBT+ anime discussion thread)

Discussion in 'General Anime Discussion' started by Starletka, Jan 25, 2018.

?

BL or GL?

  1. BL

    31.0%
  2. GL

    18.4%
  3. both

    45.6%
  4. neither

    5.1%
  1. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Well-Known Member

    Fukunaga was one of the most memorable characters in the series. I can actually remember more about Fukunaga than I can about the bland protag chick.
     
    howtoprocrastinate and Gens like this.
  2. Franconator

    Franconator Well-Known Member

    Gosh, I do love everything about Isabella. I knew I wasn't wrong for shipping her with George.
     
  3. Claptrap

    Claptrap Database Moderator

    I think one of the most impressive shounen LGBT+ characters for me is Alluka, since you basically had an insanely popular character like Killua say 'trans rights' as a result. That's huge.

    [​IMG]

    Realistically, I wouldn't even be surprised if Killua was intended to be read as having a crush on Gon, because actually Togashi is pretty supportive of LGBT+ content and Killua gets some pretty heavy implications esp for someone as aware as Togashi who doesn't like... 'accidentally' do things like that. Pretty much every manga he's worked on has had a gay character or two.
     
  4. daisicles

    daisicles Well-Known Member

    Very unfair to inflict George on anybody, but especially Isabella, for longer than one night before he's had time to get out of his troubled art school boy phase. Which is not to say that George and Isabella wouldn't be a killer couple later, after he's grown up enough.
     
  5. Franconator

    Franconator Well-Known Member

    Oh, for sure. But I always felt that if there was anyone who could make George feel really real as a person, it would be Isabella. I mean, he's still a dick, but he loses some of the asshole tendencies when he's with her.
     
  6. Gens

    Gens Database Moderator

    Posted by Gens on Jan 3, 2022
    #926
    I'm not even a big clothes person, but Paradise Kiss is one of those shows that make me think, damn fashion is so fucking cool and fabulous. To say Isabella, has the best character design I've ever seen for a transgender character would be a massive understatement.
     
  7. daisicles

    daisicles Well-Known Member

    That's true. I think because he's known her long enough, he can turn off the performance for a little while. And much as I think he's a dick, he's definitely more of the "needs to grow up" variety, which is fine since he's a high school kid, so give him a few years as a working adult and he should be okay. It's just that Isabella has all her shit together, so he needs to earn it!
     
  8. Gens

    Gens Database Moderator

    Posted by Gens on Jan 3, 2022
    #928
    I know for a fact, Togashi tried to get a queer sports manga off the ground:

    [​IMG]

    If only man, he would have been such an absolute HERO to me.
     
  9. Claptrap

    Claptrap Database Moderator

    I remember this pitch. Honestly for a WSJ pitch in the 90s that's pretty wild.

    I think Togashi has only gotten better over time with this kind of thing too... I'm a little sad he'll probably never get to do another original project all considered.
     
  10. Gens

    Gens Database Moderator

    Posted by Gens on Jan 4, 2022
    #930
    Man, I totally forgot this happened in Hunter x Hunter:



    This show is even GAYER than I remember lol
     
  11. Claptrap

    Claptrap Database Moderator

    you can actually see behind the characters, but killua and gon's names are under a love-love umbrella (romantic indicator) during every one of these encyclopedia segments, in the background on the whiteboard. so uh, you know the anime staff supported it anyway
     
  12. BrainBlow

    BrainBlow Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's freaking rough...

    I remember a good video essay of how Togashi had been progressively taken steps to learn over the course of his series. Some of his early portrayals are pretty insensitive, but he improves. The whole ordeal with Alluka and Nanika is especially touching. I'm a huge shounentard but shounen rarely makes me as teary-eyed and emotional as the scene with Killua apologizing to Nanika.


    Historians would say they were very good friends
     
  13. Gens

    Gens Database Moderator

    Posted by Gens on Jan 7, 2022
    #933
    I've been digging through more 70s shoujo manga and picked up From Eroica with Love. Its basically gay Lupin, this panel is hilarious to put out of context:

    [​IMG]

    I love it how Dorian is modeled after Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin. A gay series from the 70s where everyone is pretty manly is certainly different than what you'd expect. Especially notable for not being a tragedy considering the time period.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  14. daisicles

    daisicles Well-Known Member

    Reading older shoujo manga can deliver so many amazing queer moments, truly, and I wish it were easier to get my hands on 70s stuff. It's like half of it is tragedy (because there was a lot of inspiration from all those depressing European art films) and half of it is something completely bananas with some cool gender shit going on in the background. With sparkles. Always with sparkles. It's not even necessarily good but it sure can be interesting.
     
  15. Akishima

    Akishima Well-Known Member

    Started reading Saiyaku wa Boku o Suki Sugiru, and a few chapters in, I started wondering why it was taking so long to get to the next major plot point- then I took a look at the volume count, and realized- it's a relatively long series. I just assumed because it's bl that it'd be short. Color me both frustrated that it's still ongoing, but also happy that it isn't as short as most of them are, and is taking its time with an actual story. Oh the drama, though. A part of me is like "just kiss already!" but the other part is "no, I want plot dammit, take all the time you need." At any rate, it's pretty darned cute so far- supernatural bl hits all the right notes for me.
     
  16. Gens

    Gens Database Moderator

    Posted by Gens on Jan 11, 2022
    #936
    Thinking about the gender bender isekai this season, it's still quite exhausting seeing it used as a mere gag. I think my main problem when I think about it, is they always have the guy gender bendered to a girl always fall in love with their guy friend. It feels, heavily cis/hetero-normative to me. That biological sex = gender. Just because your mind transferred to a woman's body doesn't instantly mean you would find guys attractive to me. It also gets particularly toxic when the character is suddenly weak and defenseless and it annoys me a lot. Always feels like the author just doesn't have the actual spine to make a gay romance so they resort to this to fit heterosexual norms. I don't think I see much of any stories honestly where it's like they always wanted to be that gender either from the start.

    I have complicated feelings, because I do find myself liking genderbends a lot of canon characters if it isn't just played solely for fanservice with mtf. Cause I just like seeing more badass women and representation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  17. Claptrap

    Claptrap Database Moderator

    I do think it's more interesting if the character has always felt that way about their friend or always felt a deep desire to shuck gender norms, but so much of the genre is lazy and black and white. Generally is 'wow I have tits'.

    But the truth is if you transferred to another body you'd still have the same preferences engrained, and if it wasn't something you desired you'd have a lot of dysphoria to struggle with
     
  18. redoverthebed

    redoverthebed New Member

    Just on these points, I think that the new Isekai is at least moderately interesting on this front (although, I'm still not sure I like it) - all spoilers in the first ten minutes of Ep 1, realistically (ML = ML; FL = ML who has been gender-bended - it's not accurate but it's easier than names).
    (BTW these spoilers are all, basically, premise so I'm only spoilering for those who have strong aversion to spoilers)

    - The ML is strongly, heavily, implied to be in love with FL to begin with. E.g. his disinterest in women, the FL's joking that the ML is in love with him.
    - The ML and FL only fall in love in these bodies because of a spell.
    - The FL doesn't seem to be happy with their body at the moment.

    I agree that there's real problems with how it's presented, but I don't think the problem is that it's a mere gag: because before they are isekai'd I was kinda' sold on them being a possible couple. And then even the moment after the gender shift happens, the ML is upset at the FL being gender-bended because the god "stole his oasis from him". This is profoundly, hella, gay.
    So, yes, gayness was a joke but not the butt of the joke. The joke is akin to when a generic male-lead gets overworked protecting any unwitting female-lead.

    And I just want to stress that for the first half, the show was

    Then after the spell hit... they throw out the implication that the ML loves the FL pre-isekai. And with it goes the thing that made this feel kind of queer in the first place.
    And with it comes something worse: the characters oppose loving each other because they're both men (basically implied as such though not entirely stated as such) it comes across as almost repugnantly homophobic. It might sound ridiculous, but that the fact that only small changes would make it feel okay makes it feel worse. Like, remove the love spell and you have a relatively interesting and queer story where the FL is fighting for his gender and the ML is fighting to get back the man he loves.
    The love spell adds basically nothing to the situation except to go "haha, but you wouldn't want to be gay, would you?"

    BTW, I did digging after the episode. Here's what the author has to say on the manga:

    Yuu Tsurusaki: All I wish to convey via this manga is a form of love that isn't bound by terms such as BL or TS. But to be honest, I just want to awaken a new fetish within someone, that's what I strongly hope to achieve. Please awaken.

    I was probably expecting too much in hindsight.
     
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  19. Claptrap

    Claptrap Database Moderator

  20. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Well-Known Member

    It feels like a darker version of Natsume Yuujinchou.
    The "sex scene" in the 4th chapter, kinda solidified the whole metaphor. Being seduced by the gay monster.
     

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