Once more I want to say I don't think this is the case at all. I think he can tell that coworker-chan is into him. But as I outlined he's basically the typical saint kind of character. He's the MC that is nice to everyone and wants everyone to be happy. If he DID notice that his coworker was interested, what SHOULD he do? If he was himself interested in her, she gave him easy bait to grab onto, but in not being interested as I suspect to be the case. So as the guy who wants everyone to be happy who'd not interested in someone who is PROBABLY interested in him, should he be presumptuous and reject her without actually being confessed to? Or act like you didn't notice and hope the advances slowly stop happening for minimal emotional impact? I think choosing the latter fits his character.
Even his boss told him that coworker-chan took a liking to him, he didn't act surprised or refute it, he just re-upped on his love confession for big-boob-boss-lady-chan.
well he may or may not be faced with a more direct approach from co-chan, in which he may or may not shed light on whether he was truly dense or playing dense...
After is boss accused him of dating the same chick, he responds by saying in the 5 years he worked with her, he's only been in love with boss-lady, and that he still feels the same way. This basically said without saying it that he's not interested in coworker-chan, So even though she threw herself at him, what of it? What's a saint like him supposed to do in that situation if he's not interested?
@tootalls
Fair point, i forgot that scene happened where he says he only loved the boss. Though there is the element of rejection, his boss rejected him so its not unfair for him to open his horizons to other women, Of course i doubt he would fall for anyone so fast but i guess my point it, it's not impossible.
Though yes i do believe he rejected her advances, not out of being clueless but more to stop them without rejection its self, which is fine, its not like anything was confirmed. I don't think she took the hint of course, and equally i think he was a bit direct in how she shoves her off but her later comments about them speaking of the same guy (Yoshida) being nice blah blah tells me she is in this long term... no complaints from me, i like her!
but ahem, i don't doubt he has some method to his madness anyways, he certainly has his head screwed on where it counts in most area's so I'm curious to see what happens.
Even if he was a bit dense, i would spare him if he remains being a good MC.
As long as it isn't dense as some terrible characters around... no really, they are the bad characters (from bad series though... so my point feels bad in its self!).
@tootalls
Fair point, i forgot that scene happened where he says he only loved the boss. Though there is the element of rejection, his boss rejected him so its not unfair for him to open his horizons to other women, Of course i doubt he would fall for anyone so fast but i guess my point it, it's not impossible.
Though yes i do believe he rejected her advances, not out of being clueless but more to stop them without rejection its self, which is fine, its not like anything was confirmed. I don't think she took the hint of course, and equally i think he was a bit direct in how she shoves her off but her later comments about them speaking of the same guy (Yoshida) being nice blah blah tells me she is in this long term... no complaints from me, i like her!
but ahem, i don't doubt he has some method to his madness anyways, he certainly has his head screwed on where it counts in most area's so I'm curious to see what happens.
Even if he was a bit dense, i would spare him if he remains being a good MC.
As long as it isn't dense as some terrible characters around... no really, they are the bad characters (from bad series though... so my point feels bad in its self!).
If you watched clannad, This guy reminds me of Tomoya when it comes to romance.
Overall, Tomoya was no saint, but when it comes to sexual morality, he was very similar to this guy. You'd think Tomoya was dense to the attention he was getting without a key moment that comes to mind. A girl asked him: "Do you know why I've been inviting you to these lunches?" And his response was "yeah, more or less". He was aware of everything, but not interested so without directly having the subject brought to attention, acted like nothing was happening at all.
That was my impression after last week, more or less. That he knew she liked him but wasn't interested b/c he's an idiot potentially b/c he was so focused on Goto.
So I considered that he was playing dense, but...I mean, she hugs him. I don't know how you play that off realistically as "quit kidding around" in the context of that moment. And then she lets him get away with it without being at all put off. Which I think is what made me think he has to be actually dense, not just pretending to be polite.
Then again, I did think this episode was horribly-written, so...it's possible that she's supposed to be too dense to pick up on his rejection, thinking she's been super-subtle, and he's faking being dense as an out (for them both) for the situation. And maybe it's meant to be a parallel to how Sayu hugs him, later on, and he rejects her, realizing that he wasn't helping by not acknowledging her side of things even though he knew it was there. And then he hugs her, and it's poetry it rhymes etc etc etc.
I dunno. I think it was bad in either direction--either because he's too dense for the show or because she is. It just didn't work.
i don't need to see a emotionless half dead (looking) girl being screwed by some guy to it only to enforce the "does this feel good for you, Sayu?" comment - c'mon dude
That's what I thought! That he looked young, I mean. And...okay, I'm gonna put this out there: I thought the guy didn't seem so much like a scumbag, in that scene, but an inexperienced dude. Like, he did not come across as confidently having his way with her but, rather, as slightly timid and unsure. Like, I mocked the scene, but his dialogue and his youthful look seemed more to me to be a guy who was hoping for some positive reinforcement rather than taking advantage of some convenient co--um, comfort.
Which brings things back around to the discussions from the first episode: exact ages aside, we can judge a guy's willingness to let a girl stay with him in exchange for sex, but it seems to me that (her thousand-yard stare notwithstanding) a fair amount of this falls at her doorstep, as well. By which I mean, maybe the guys weren't all scumbags. Maybe the issues she had with them getting "tired of her" had something to do with her thinking she didn't need to function as a full person when she was with them.
Again, I'm not excusing the guys for entering into a bargain that's clearly not a point of ethical pride, but--and I know she's young--at some point she should have maybe considered that sex is a pretty one-dimensional foundation for an interpersonal relationship, and so thinking that sex was all it would take to remain relevant to the guys she was staying with was, well, not the case. Not that I think a 16-year-old would think (or have the perspective to think) especially deeply about this, but...just practically, right? Sex and chores maybe?
(Also, I thought "Miyuki" was maybe her last name. Which I know, in hindsight, makes no sense. Clearly it's a fake name. (Or Sayu is. (Or both.)) But, in thinking it was her last name, I thought it was a dude she knew from class or something. Which I know, in hindsight, makes (almost) no sense.)
i personally loved the dejected (and ignored) response at the table when MC's friend implied MC has a girlfriend and thus is why he turned down the business trip, it just was funny the way she replied
See, this hit me in the exact opposite way. I thought this wasn't what she wanted to hear.
Which is odd, I know, since I assumed it's what she wanted him to say, that his place was her place, as well, but her reaction made me think it just turned up the burden she was feeling about not holding up her value to him.
Then again, I was grumbling to myself quite a lot, at that point, so it's possible I was imagining things.
"I won't let you have sex with Gita, Ui!"
"I already had sex with him--before I even knew he was my sister's guitar!"
"GASP!"
"And he gave me a suppository!"
"GASP--wait, how did he do that?"
"I just put it on the end of the whammy bar and..."
"W-W-Well I'm gonna have his baby! In a coma! And die!"
"Can't you guys just share the guit--"
"STAY OUT OF THIS AZUNYAN!"
Exactly what I was thinking. This episode wanted to do the shocking moment in Ep 1 where
Mugi takes Hanabi's panties off
and suddenly you're like, "Wait, is this show really doing this?!" and you sit up in your seat and it's intense and you don't know if you're excited or scandalized or what.
But you know what you definitely don't feel? Gross. Or put off. Because it's a moment that, though unexpectedly risque, fits perfectly with everything else in the episode.
I don't think anyone is gushing about what a decent guy he is because he's a good coworker. And I'd be willing to bet it's not because he's giving Sayu a place to live or even that he wants her to value herself more.
It's about the not-sexytime. And...I mean, good. I like that he's got an objectively decent moral code. Or at least seems to have one.
But I also feel like he's getting a little more credit than he deserves for not having sex with her. Like, should we also talk about how he resisted embezzling from his company, this week?
am I the only one who doesn't think he's a hero for not having sex he doesn't want to have?
Like, I get that she's hot and throwing herself at him, and I get that he thinks she's good looking, but...he's not given us any reason to think he's been struggling not to sexualize her.
Umm... I think u got it wrong. Or maybe I should say u r focusing a bit too much on the "sexual" part of the justification. I never said that I respect him just for resisting a good night from a cute teen girl.
1. He adopted a runaway teen girl.
2. As the show mentions a lot of times, there isn't much for him in it. He just does it out of pure kindness.
3. I respect him for how he handles his professional life.
4. He is actually paying for every one of Sayu's need which also includes a smartphone, some crazy costly lotions or whatever it was and her cloths. I doubt many people exist who will take in a runaway and actually invest this much into their well being.
5. Also he is a very caring figure. I doubt many would have actually run after Sayu like he did in the 3rd ep after she left. Who would even care to go around and look for an almost free loader...
I could spell more reasons which do not in a bit have anything to do with Yoshida resisting a boner. So yeah... I guess I made my point though. ^_^
am I the only one who doesn't think he's a hero for not having sex he doesn't want to have?
Like, I get that she's hot and throwing herself at him, and I get that he thinks she's good looking, but...he's not given us any reason to think he's been struggling not to sexualize her.
Umm... I think u got it wrong. Or maybe I should say u r focusing a bit too much on the "sexual" part of the justification. I never said that I respect him just for resisting a good night from a cute teen girl.
1. He adopted a runaway teen girl.
2. As the show mentions a lot of times, there isn't much for him in it. He just does it out of pure kindness.
3. I respect him for how he handles his professional life.
4. He is actually paying for every one of Sayu's need which also includes a smartphone, some crazy costly lotions or whatever it was and her cloths. I doubt many people exist who will take in a runaway and actually invest this much into their well being.
5. Also he is a very caring figure. I doubt many would have actually run after Sayu like he did in the 3rd ep after she left. Who would even care to go around and look for an almost free loader...
I could spell more reasons which do not in a bit have anything to do with Yoshida resisting a boner. So yeah... I guess I made my point though. ^_^
I also meant to respond to this, but got engrossed in the other subject. The way I see it, it isn't that he didn't want the sex, it's WHY he didn't want the sex. Out his own mouth he acknowledged how appealing she was, in other words, she DOES peak his sexual interest. So it's not sex he doesn't want on the simple terms of just having zero interest in it.
He claims he doesn't want to have sex with anyone he doesn't love, which very well may be true, but why did he come to that conclusion?
Putting all the pieces together from all of his actions, I think not wanting sex without love is more for the woman who'd be involved than it is for himself. He feels he'd be doing a disservice to the sex partner if there is no love in it.
Also in Sayu's case, he DID ask her if she really wanted to have sex that badly, and she said "not really". So she'd basically be a not so willing partner like the dead meat example depicted at the start of the episode. After that exchange he just lectures her, and wants her to stop going down the path of using her body to pay rent, and to raise her standards.
If he had sex with her, he'd just be reinforcing the bad instincts for survival she's built up since leaving home. When the day comes that she leaves his apartment, his hopes are that she'd leave with a new outlook on life and new standards.
So overall it's sex he doesn't want sure.......but I think WHY he doesn't want it deserves to be commended, because his body does want it, he asked her to stop trying to seduce him because it's actually taking quite a bit of restraint on his behalf to not cave in and do it. The reason he doesn't want the sex is more for her than it is for himself.
I also meant to respond to this, but got engrossed in the other subject. The way I see it, it isn't that he didn't want the sex, it's WHY he didn't want the sex. Out his own mouth he acknowledged how appealing she was, in other words, she DOES peak his sexual interest. So it's not sex he doesn't want on the simple terms of just having zero interest in it.
He claims he doesn't want to have sex with anyone he doesn't love, which very well may be true, but why did he come to that conclusion?
Putting all the pieces together from all of his actions, I think not wanting sex without love is more for the woman who'd be involved than it is for himself. He feels he'd be doing a disservice to the sex partner if there is no love in it.
Also in Sayu's case, he DID ask her if she really wanted to have sex that badly, and she said "not really". So she'd basically be a not so willing partner like the dead meat example depicted at the start of the episode. After that exchange he just lectures her, and wants her to stop going down the path of using her body to pay rent, and to raise her standards.
If he had sex with her, he'd just be reinforcing the bad instincts for survival she's built up since leaving home. When the day comes that she leaves his apartment, his hopes are that she'd leave with a new outlook on life and new standards.
So overall it's sex he doesn't want sure.......but I think WHY he doesn't want it deserves to be commended, because his body does want it, he asked her to stop trying to seduce him because it's actually taking quite a bit of restraint on his behalf to not cave in and do it. The reason he doesn't want the sex is more for her than it is for himself.
I didn't mean to suggest that you said as much, and you're certainly not the only one who has praised him. I just used your post as an example.
Also, I think you're...exaggerating, in your iteration of praise. Not that I think you don't think these things about him are good or that they wouldn't help you like him as a character on their own, but neither you nor anyone else would be commenting on his conscientiousness as a coworker unless you were already impressed that he wasn't having sex with Sayu.
It'd be some off hand comments about him being a nice guy for wanting to help her, and then a lot of discussion about how much trouble he's going to get into if anyone finds out.
Untrue. He's doing it because he's lonely. Which seemed fairly obvious from the start, but he even says as much at the end of the episode.
I'd even go so far as to say he'd never have done it if he wasn't drunk and walking back from a romantic rejection.
It's still ultimately nice that he's helping her, of course. And, dubious though the whole situation may be, the situation may be the best solution for both her and for him--objectively. But it's not selfless.
...which is still the not having sex thing. Which means my point still stands: remove the sex part and no one would be talking about what a swell guy he is.
Certainly people would be like, "Gosh, he's nice for helping her," don't get me wrong. But we wouldn't be getting "he's such a great guy" if not predicated on his turning down of sex.
Which is a good thing that he's done, absolutely--regardless of whether it's entirely selfish or not. But it's still just turning down sex. Which is not a difficult thing to do.
Further, I think it's interesting that the implication being made is that it's an achievement that he hasn't f***ed Sayu, yet we've all been belittling the men who did--as has he.
My point, in that sense, is that if the baseline judgment is that sleeping with Sayu is a bad thing and should be seen as such, why is he such a great guy for not doing it? And that it's good for her that he doesn't seems like a thoughtful (as in it has been given thought) reason, but it's also irrelevant if the baseline decision is not to do it.
Again, it doesn't matter if he doesn't embezzle from his company because he finds stealing repugnant or just knows it's against the law to do it. It's a distinction without a difference: he isn't doing it because it's bad to do.
...which is still the not having sex thing. Which means my point still stands: remove the sex part and no one would be talking about what a swell guy he is.
Certainly people would be like, "Gosh, he's nice for helping her," don't get me wrong. But we wouldn't be getting "he's such a great guy" if not predicated on his turning down of sex.
Which is a good thing that he's done, absolutely--regardless of whether it's entirely selfish or not. But it's still just turning down sex. Which is not a difficult thing to do.
Further, I think it's interesting that the implication being made is that it's an achievement that he hasn't f***ed Sayu, yet we've all been belittling the men who did--as has he.
I mean I did create a list that included a lot of things that didn't have to do with turning down the sex, and also couldn't find a stain on his character while he does extra things for people that he doesn't have to do, So without the sex thing, I still think I'd be calling him a typical saint character.
And turning down easy sex isn't easy, even harder with a hot scantly clad chick grabbing your schlung practically begging for it in the privacy of your own home. Banging her wouldn't be illegal, what he DID choose to do is the illegal thing in housing a run away, So he's not really just following laws here.
And others may have belittled the other guys that DID bang her, but I didn't partake in much of that, as I don't see the decision to not take the offer as the "baseline judgement". It's the "look at me and my high level of morality" judgment, but most warm blooded men with a hot chick grabbing their dick behind closed doors would struggle and struggle hard to not cave. Hunger and lust are the body's two most powerful drives and both can make moves on impulse. When the blood starts pumping your sober mental state ceases to function as it does normally, the body attempts to take control, part of your mind may say it's a bad idea meanwhile you had no control over your penis becoming erect. once that happens what seemed to be a bad idea suddenly starts sounding like a really good idea..........basically turning down sex at the point he did in episode 3 is a way tougher thing to do for the average joe than you make it out to be.
There's levels to it:
* Got a preposition for sex online : easy to turn down if my mind wasn't already there.
*body call by phone: this is tougher, I can hear her voice on the other end, but I still can't see her and she's quite a distance away
* having dinner she ask if she can come over: harder still, we're face to face, I hear her voice I can get a mental image of her body by looking at her, but at this point, I can still manage to turn down the offer.
* She's half naked alone with me in my house grabbing my dick : at this point, My rational mind isn't in full control, I can't confidently say which head would win out in this situation, I probably forgot all the reasons I didn't want to do it the moment she grabbed my junk.
Last point I wanna say a real life instance of someone I know who caved and had every reason not to, and I wouldn't consider a terrible person. His family left him at a children's home, and he was adopted by a family from my church when he was about 17, a very unlikely age to be adopted at. they had a daughter older than him by a few years, as son like 2 years younger than him who he grew real close to and a daughter 6 years younger. He lived with them and was so close to the family they all started to look alike. Then when he was about 20, and the youngest daughter was about 14 she came on to him. He was chilling in his room, she was fresh out the shower wrapped in a towel and went to his room instead of hers and that was all she wrote. He never tried to make it happen, but in the moment his second head made his life fall apart. She got pregnant, and he went to prison for a few years on a statutory charge. Disowned by the family that took him in, including his closest friend that was like a brother to him and his now grown daughter was never allowed to see him when he got out. He was no predator, had every reason to resist, but a naked girl in your room coming on to you was not easy to resist. He has no other similar marks on his record, it was just a case of sex when presented in that way being hard to turn down even when you know you should.
And it's not just his version of the story, even she admitted that it happened the way he said it happened, but nobody cared, he was the "adult" in the equation. "he should have known better". And unfortunately for him it wasn't Japan with a age 13 consent age, it's 16 where I live.
IKR?? The only case that something like this would bother me is if it was exactly antithetical to the show so it should be something hard to fuck up! Yet here we are...
Reminds me of how often media forgets that a rape scene they are depicting is.. well, rape, and they end up trying to make it sexy. Stop it. It's not sexy, it's disgusting. The specific case in HigeHiro was definitely not as bad of course, just saying that sometimes creators get a bit too horny. And in this show, they should take a lesson from their own main character.
Anyway I could quote most of everything else you said but.. yeah as you said we agreed a lot this time so I won't waste time writing "This 100%!!!" a dozen times.
You almost forgetting her name while wondering why people don't mention her is pretty funny. Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I legit just don't care about her. Full stop.
S..same. Dare I say the controversial take that this is probably a gender difference? Will Twitter kill me for it? We'll see if tomorrow #NekusIsOverParty is trending.
So i did enjoy it for the best part... i might follow Nekus in picking up the LN... though i will watch this through first, could be a interesting read.
You almost forgetting her name while wondering why people don't mention her is pretty funny. Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I legit just don't care about her. Full stop.
Basically this, she doesn't leave much of an impression, I'm sure everyone noticed but nobody cared, if she actively tries to get involved then she'll matter......maybe, but for now she can do whatever the hell she wants in the background.
And I've seen this story before, by the time she tries to get involved (if she ever does) it would be too late and he would have already moved on in 1 direction or another. This character type cannot love 2 people at the same time.
Sure. But would you then be singing the praises of the guy from Nisekoi or We Never Learn or any other show where the protagonist male goes to incredible lengths to make everyone else around him happy?
This is (in part) the distinction I'm trying to make: I think he'd be getting a lot fewer accolades had sex never been put on the table for him to reject.
Of course, I'm also a strong advocate for "but his mental attentions are elsewhere," which has notably been met with raised eyebrows in other threads.
I just think he's a guy with not only good morals but also with a sense of motivation that is tied to his feelings rather than his impulses. As in, when he says he'd only want to have sex with someone he loves, I think he basically means exactly that: he is moved to action by an internal barometer, not an external force. (Or, put another way, to truly seduce him, you'd have to ply his mind (or his heart, if you prefer) rather than his body.)
It's the same principle I'd apply to explaining why he'd not choose Office Lady B despite his clear rejection by Goto: he likes Goto, therefore his only option is Goto--and it will remain such until he is done liking Goto.
See, this is what I get for taking 100 years to write my responses.
What is the distinction between Goto's treatment of Yoshida and Yoshida's treatment of Office Lady B?
Could not an argument be made that she was (perhaps) doing to Yoshida what Yoshida (might) be doing to Office Lady B, in terms of purposeful ignorance?
I am of the mind that sex and sexuality (as in, the use of the sexual) is best left to the periphery, unless you're going to make something explicitly erotic. Implied sex--much like implied horror--is usually much more powerful, if you're attempting to fill a narrative purpose.
That said...you know I will not be forgiving of it if it makes genuine storytelling mistakes. And that I will (usually...and with fawning caveats) make note of things that I like that are cliche or contrived or that I'm giving a pass because they tickle my fancy rather than because they are solid decisions.
For example: there's a fifth girl on the horizon. And that makes my storyteller's heart frown in anticipation.
And that said...you know my threshold for that point is veeeeeeery different from everyone else's.
S..same. Dare I say the controversial take that this is probably a gender difference? Will Twitter kill me for it? We'll see if tomorrow #NekusIsOverParty is trending.
Less a gender thing than a [struggles to rise above petty internet usage] consent thing, if you ask me. Like, whether you mean this specific to Office Lady B or ladies in general or only certain kinds of ladies, there is a certain amount of attention you would like to get and, as such, have granted preapproval to the ether. (Generally.)
There are certainly male-specific explanations about what kind of attention threshold you might have, but I don't think it would much matter otherwise. And the same is true for women, in their own individual/general/situational ways.
How permission given to the ether would then justify the actions of others towards you is a murkier topic.
And, of course, we're all radically sexist in both directions when making outside judgments. (Justifiably, in some cases, and too prejudicially in others.)
Of course, all of this would require honest and measured thoughtfulness to parse, so, yeah, I would think that--oh, there's the DM about when to mass-email your employer and unperson you.
I mean, it isn't personal. Just gotta keep that social credit score up.
That said, she's not the most involved character, is she. And, by virtue of Yoshida's perspective, she begins things being cast in a bad light. (Perhaps deservedly so. Perhaps not.)
Heh, I'd say that's exactly the case. It's hard to invest in a functional character.
I saw her, acknowledged her and her reaction, and then filed it away in case it came back into play in a subsequent episode. Which it better. Otherwise...why?
When I say he can't love two people at the same time I meant emotionally not physically. This goes hand in hand with the thing referencing MC's from shows like Nisekoi and we never learn. Both of those shows are full fledged comedies, so as they clean someone's apartment from top to bottom, you never really feel the impact on the amount of time and effort doing something like that entails, because that's not the show's intent for the viewer to dwell on those things, those shows just want to make you laugh.
This show is framed and grounded by far more realistic principals so by the time we got to the end of ep 3 and MC had his internal monologue about how he thought he was doing things for her and getting nothing in return, we'd actually feel the time, money and effort of the things he did.
To that point when it comes to sex, characters in those aforementioned shows fit this idealistic character type to levels beyond realism. And 100% wouldn't even kiss a girl they didn't think they liked, where as in this show grounded in realism, one can have ideals, but there is grey area. "I think there should be love involved, but I'm single, a little rub dub couldn't hurt".
Think about the MC from Domestic Kanajo for this point. He's also a nice guy idealistic type, but even though from the offset of the show he was in love with Sensei, He still slept with Imouto because he didn't have any good reason to refuse. And later there was another girl who threw herself at him, and I got the feeling he would have totally done her as well, as I think he was single at that point in the story, but he evaluated he mental state and decided hooking up with her would have been bad for HER, so he didn't do it. (sound familiar?) I think there certainly are bigger picture things that affect his actions, things he doesn't always spell out to Sayu, though in that moment he had to tell her SOMETHING. And just saying he wouldn't do it without being in love was a lot easier out on that discussion than explaining the complicated reasons I suspect to be at play.
Well i got my take out on the way and there ain't a chance i will finish typing this post before it arrives so I don't even care if i get sniped which makes half of this make no sense!
That's what I thought! That he looked young, I mean. And...okay, I'm gonna put this out there: I thought the guy didn't seem so much like a scumbag, in that scene, but an inexperienced dude. Like, he did not come across as confidently having his way with her but, rather, as slightly timid and unsure. Like, I mocked the scene, but his dialogue and his youthful look seemed more to me to be a guy who was hoping for some positive reinforcement rather than taking advantage of some convenient co--um, comfort.
The good news for me is, i wasn't just over thinking it with the age thing (or at least i wasn't the only one!). Your points about him potentially coming over as a inexperienced dude over a complete scumbag could be a fair point i ironically over looked (despite the age standing out!), i suppose this would help the awkward dialogue and just over all awkward scene... but i dunno if we are just being kind on that fact this scene was terrible and felt gross to watch.
By which I mean, maybe the guys weren't all scumbags. Maybe the issues she had with them getting "tired of her" had something to do with her thinking she didn't need to function as a full person when she was with them.
A equally interesting observation - Not sure about the end part but its certainly a point to say maybe she "pushed" this on them anyway, like some guy lets her stay and she feels she has to sleep with him, and thus behaves as she did with Yoshida? I honestly never considered she spent more than a night with someone weirdly enough until this post... dunno why, i just thought she went place to place.
But on this subject, how does she manage to get people? Like this might sound... trashy, but its fair to say most people would certainly walk on, only the worst and the best would stop and question her sitting alone in a street. But... i certainly doubt she has spent every night in someone's bed, right? She will have had nights where no one took her in, maybe several in a row, that must be rough, but my point probably falls onto her likely pushing herself on people, i most likely could be wrong but lets say your MC-kun, the odds are you wont instantly take some strangers offer for sex in exchange for a night, now of course some people would and... well okay that's still wrong (assuming she wasn't a teen) but i did say, only trash and the best would give her a ear to begin with, but along comes one of the good guys... something tells me a few nights of her games and someone like Yoshida says she is fine... i... i can't help thinking she digs her grave deeper, which i do appreciate is all she knows and certainly is more likely to keep her safe.
She must of known she could met some of the worst though, the guys she met are trash but remember we can enter the even worst group... i don't really care for the topic though so i wont go on.
Regardless... i think you made me wonder if she offering so easily has only made her own life worse... dammit!
The "didn't need to function as a full person with them" is likely legit, I recall reading a news article a year or two ago about some prostitutes which was being targeted by mugging groups and such, which was the focus but it had some interviews with them about their "career" choice in which most admitted to "switching off" emotionally during the job, like just say enough to keep the client happy and let it be over with, now i am quoting a small interview in a news article on a separate matter to begin with but i think by association it's the same principle... even if she isn't a hooker for the cash... or technically a hooker.
For once i can say it was a simple 3am mistake! Actually I would imagine if i read my earlier post that its full of typo's and stuff which make no sense at all.
"I won't let you have sex with Gita, Ui!"
"I already had sex with him--before I even knew he was my sister's guitar!"
"GASP!"
"And he gave me a suppository!"
"GASP--wait, how did he do that?"
"I just put it on the end of the whammy bar and..."
"W-W-Well I'm gonna have his baby! In a coma! And die!"
"Can't you guys just share the guit--"
"STAY OUT OF THIS AZUNYAN!"
But you know what you definitely don't feel? Gross. Or put off. Because it's a moment that, though unexpectedly risque, fits perfectly with everything else in the episode.
Exactly!
I wont say if this show could or couldn't pull of this kind of scene but it thus far can't (prior to this episode), its got the setting in place but the idea just doesn't come to fit, it felt out of place and... well i stand by thinking it was just a "forced" thing to make them feel like it makes it more mature, which ironically holds the opposite effect.
I would be questioning why he isn't with Office Lady B!! Wait... we still talking about Sayu? Urgh, i will keep scrolling (what's a guy gotta do to talk about her!!!).
You almost forgetting her name while wondering why people don't mention her is pretty funny. Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I legit just don't care about her. Full stop.
... I actually laughed at how right your point is, touché. But yeah i literally don't care about her either, shame as she looked good enough but meh, i just hold no real interest... but i know the story wont let her fade so easily.
I'm waiting to see you appear in the coming days in them youtube videos which laugh at how woke twitter gets, the new hashtag involving how your a disgrace to humanity its self... just you wait, twitter can't be stopped!!!
oh damn, that's pretty sweet timing, the biggest offput for me is if the series is only 30% released as it can take years to see it finished, but that's a pretty great timed release, well i know whats going on my reading list.
I hope she accepts she was too slow and keeping him around (interested) forever wasn't going to be a thing, accepting her loss... of course i know she wont go down and will poison her character just to create a boring drama or 2 episode.
That said, she's not the most involved character, is she. And, by virtue of Yoshida's perspective, she begins things being cast in a bad light. (Perhaps deservedly so. Perhaps not.)
I probably missed half the points made here, i went afk twice writing this and lost my thought track, i also find myself rather tired as i spent the best part of last night writing these posts so i can't say it was a sleep profiting night... so yeah i will skip the stuff i missed, i read it all but... it is what it is. I'm sure i will catchup tomorrow (or later), especially if someone talks about Office Lady B coming onto me... or something.
Both of those shows are full fledged comedies, so as they clean someone's apartment from top to bottom, you never really feel the impact on the amount of time and effort doing something like that entails
Fair point, in that--structurally--the zanier shows would eliminate the possibility of a "maybe they would" option, whereas the possibility certainly exists within this more grounded show. (Though...well, I'd want to revisit this, but let's not lose focus.)
But just because an option to do something scummy is a possibility doesn't somehow make it a sure thing--nor even typically sure enough that it would take a unique force of willpower to resist doing it.
Because your contention is
that the only thing keeping Yoshida from banging Sayu is external--specifically, that it'd be broadly hurtful to her (as opposed to something he doesn't want to do (because maybe he responded physiologically to her running his dick))--and that he didn't mean the stuff he told her about why he found her attractive but wouldn't sleep with her.
that he is to be admired for not sleeping with her because it's nigh impossible for a dude to turn down ready sex.
that because he exists in a world where it's nigh impossible for a dude to turn down ready sex, he can't be a guy who wouldn't consider f***ing without an emotional attachment without enormous show of willpower.
Is any of that supported by what we've seen?
Sure, it's possible that he's dying to f*** her every night, that he's totally lacking in self-awareness regarding his urges and why he's not giving in to them, and that he sold her a bill of goods for the first time sine they met because he was desperate to get her to put her clothes on for apparently conflicting moral reasons, but...I just don't see it.
What I do see is a guy who wouldn't do any of this to begin with because it's not in his nature.
Two different characters in different situations. I get the comparison you're trying to make--because they are non-zany shows that feature the possibility of sex--but it doesn't equate.
The DK MC has a moral compass that--despite the one time he maybe did something decent (for the girl who tossed sex at people like candy on Halloween)--lives in his pants. Yoshida...not so much.
The existence of one does not implicate the existence of the other. Further, if it did, why wouldn't the implication be that if Yoshida can be a decent person the DK MC should be able to and, therefore, is an awful person for not doing so?
More specifically:
DK MC having sex with Rui when he's in love with Hina doesn't mean that Yoshida would have sex with Sayu despite being in love with Goto.
Yeah, I'd probably rephrase that slightly, looking back.
Because I didn't mean to say that she deliberately just acted like a sex pet for them, which might have hit the guys the wrong way, but that her inability to see that sex isn't her only value might have resulted in some of the less-scummy guys growing disenchanted with her. In that, even if they liked her, there isn't much beyond that fake smile and taking off her clothes, which...the charm can wear off, is all I'm saying, when there's nothing real or substantive.
Which is not me placing blame, but offering a possible (and possibly more encompassing) explanation. Which would then show just how important Yoshida's rejection of her as a sexual partner is, in terms of her arc, because the thing that's been keeping her back is not just the bit where she seems not value herself but where she isn't letting herself be herself because she doesn't think it's a benefit. (Which is probably a whole chicken-or-the-egg thing.)
Possible, certainly. And I'd add that the scene could have been done poorly enough that we're misinterpreting what was intended to be an older guy who was being less "is it good for you?" and more "tell me you love it."
This doesn't have to be the case, I didn't intend to imply it was, though both our messaging might imply it's ONLY external or ONLY internal. If I decide to pop open this pack of stacks chips, it could be partially because I was hungry, partially because I was bored, partially because I looked in it's direction when I wasn't even thinking about it or food before looking at it........OR lastly, because I'm expecting a visitor that likes eating random shit I have lying around without asking so I felt like removing the temptation......
Point being a decision to action doesn't always have to have one reason, and every reason doesn't have to be internal or external it can be a mix.
As I tried to say before I think him not wanting sex without love IS indeed is true feelings, but once again why is it his feelings, feelings and morals don't just happen, they're all formed for reasons. So there is a reason sex without love is a problem for him, is it all internal selfish self-serving reasons? We aren't told everything, but in 3 episodes I think it's safe to say this character isn't the selfish type. Perhaps sex without love tends to cause problems for the other person involved being used? Based on his character I'd say this is a fair assumption.
So both things can be true simultaneously, Not wanting the sex being his internal desire, while those morals could have been influenced by external forces over time. I mean, morals for the most part are influenced by external forces experienced and observed by the person in question. And what I've seen from THIS MC is that he typically puts other people before himself. So I admit I'm filling gaps, but I believe there are enough trinkets of information there to make those gaps make sense.
And you basically said it with the clothes thing, he was attracted to her, her being undressed compromises is ideal situation and introduces temptation in the equation. Some people handle temptation better than others, but regardless of your level of willpower, it's better to remove the temptation entirely which is why he desperately wanted her to put on clothes and made the bluff that he'd kick her out if she tried to seduce him.
In that, even if they liked her, there isn't much beyond that fake smile and taking off her clothes, which...the charm can wear off, is all I'm saying, when there's nothing real or substantive.
Possible, certainly. And I'd add that the scene could have been done poorly enough that we're misinterpreting what was intended to be an older guy who was being less "is it good for you?" and more "tell me you love it."
This i feel is likely a certainty which is a shame (more so) for this.
I honestly just feel this whole opening (and a lesser extent the end scene with her in her undies) was hardly relevant for us, From reading the thread here i doubt anyone didn't understood her situation and realise some of the horrors which have likely been tagged with it so... why show this? I still advocate for this being a pointless tug at the writers wanting to include some sexual scenes which wouldn't force the story one way or the other so they just took advantage (ironically) of the girls past to throw us a scene to show they could... i honestly feel it was a waste.
Whilst i said in my initial post for the episode, these two scenes and Office Lady's blabbering about "fate" aside, i did enjoy the episode a lot, which leaves me thinking if we ditched this opening scene and possibly ditched or at least shrunk the "fate" scene, this episode would of landed pretty damn well with others too! The awkward scene at the end where she goes in for a crotch grab (as you do) in a underwear, well it certainly felt awkward but i do see how it sort of fits into her point she tried to make so i would let it slide... though i still back Nekus in saying i didn't need to be looking at her ass for this... and this isn't to say the scene couldn't of been done better either, as said it was still a murky scene for me but one i could overlook.
I (as said) enjoyed the episode and the story i think the show has to offer but i certainly wont hide when it does wrong, of course sometimes its subjective opinions like not caring much about Gotou and her unrealistically nice sized chest over Office Lady B or the way some stuff go... but i think all around the above mentioned was the biggest downers.
I was of course able to enjoy it beyond them but the point stands all the same.
