Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by ZetsubouKaiji, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    The second season starts this Thursday and I am so glad this show survived the shaky ratings it had the first season, because it deserves to more time to develop and play out. This is the most visually striking show on TV right now. The set designs, the lighting, framing are always beautiful in their own twisted way.

    Season 2 trailer

    This is another show that has such a strong atmosphere because all of it's major characters are fucked up in one way or another it's just that some hide it better than others. For those that don't know the series is pretty much a prequel to Red Dragon which is the first book where Hannibal Lecter appears. It's the full story of how FBI agent Will Gram has to match wits with the devious but elegant and charismatic psycho path the show is named after. However, the series has some pretty big ambitions and if it can keep its ratings up where they were at the end of last season then we should also get some alternate takes on the books starting in the third season which really makes me pumped because Mads Mikkelsen's portrayal of Hanibal is dead on perfect. The other actors also do a damn fine job, but Mads manages to bring some serious menace to a character that has gotten more and more hammy as the more movies were made about him.

    Of course the first season ended with
    Will Gram in prison and Hannibal firmly in control with really only one person believing in Gram. This season they'll have to fight to free Will while Hannibal runs pretty much wild. I'm sure there will be plenty of questionable but delicious looking dishes and lots of inventive new killers to add to the body count as Hannibal plays everyone around him with consummate skill.
  2. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Also, I'm pretty stoked that Michel Pitt is joining the cast. He's another solid actor, but what really interests me is the character he's playing. He plays Mason Verger and I won't say anything more than that because it'd be a spoiler for anyone that's not read Hannibal, but I've always wanted to know more about the backstory between Hannibal and Mason especially considering how things end between them.

    Also, I thought this was a rather nice tribute to the show.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  3. LinkSword


    I knew I had seen Michael Pitt before - he's indeed one of the two guys in Funny Games. I liked his performance (even if I have divided feelings on the movie as a whole) and I actually find his is a face perfectly fitting for a show like Hannibal. I can already picture him there even though I don't know the first thing about his character at this point in the story.

    Anyhow, Hannibal is coming back and that makes me really glad. Considering how season 1 ended and what I saw in the... fairly spoilerish trailer several weeks ago, S2 will definitely have an interesting spin on its narrative and the way the characters interact, as their relationships are bound to change and develop further.

    And above all else I just really want to see more of Mads. It's like he was born and raised for the role.
  4. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Funny Games is a frustrating movie for sure. It's got some interesting ideas but gets sunk by it's pacing and general weird random stuff happening. I've seen both the Austrian version and the American remake with Pitt. They're about equal in terms of plot, but I do prefer Pitt in the American version as the charismatic psycho.

    Pitt is a very talented actor and is pretty much only held back by the fact that is notoriously difficult to work with. That article I linked failed to mention that Pitt was actually killed off of Boardwalk Empire because everyone got sick of working with him which is why you don't see him in much stuff.
  5. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Also, I hope you go back and read you post about Pitt and laugh your ass off as hard as I did about the irony of what you wrote. Just trust me, you'll know it when it happens.
  6. LinkSword


    Hahaha. Alright, if what you're referring to is


    then I already got it now. :laugh: :laugh: (At first when typing the post I didn't remember who Mason was, then I looked up the name and remembered him from the movies)

    If you meant something else, I'll be on the lookout for another good laugh. :megusta:

    I still can't fully wrap my head around why they thought e.g. the TV Remote scene was a good idea, hahaha. I mean, I get it ties in with one of the running/closure themes of the movie that in a situation like this
    there's no reason why things should work out for the "good" people at the end of their ordeal, and it was generally a middle finger to that trope in the vast majority of thriller flicks out there,

    but it's still so out-of-left-field and silly, it inevitably takes me out of the film a bit. :laugh:
  7. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Well, I actually would have been amazed if you could avoid that particular spoiler for long since Gary Oldman's Mason Verger is pretty well known, but when you wrote that about Pitts face it was just a beautiful piece of comedy. Couldn't resist at least mentioning it. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

    Yup, exactly this.
    Even if it fits with the theme of the movie it was just so fucking silly and doesn't fit with the otherwise brutally realistic tone of the movie. The type of people that would do something like that are good at it, they know what they're doing and if it really happened it would be an utterly hopeless situation. Still turning it into a cartoon for a minute to slap me in the face with that was very unpleasant.

    That and then the weird choices of where to place lingering shots. Full thirty second pans across the front lawn, watching the front of the house when people are screaming inside or watching the guy make a sandwich for forty five seconds and then having the nerve to not tell me what kind of sandwich it was. I mean fuck, if I'm going to spend that long watching him make it then you might as well tell me if it tasted good or not.
  8. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    I woke up this morning so excited because I thought the new episode had aired last night, but my hopes were quickly crushed as it actually airs tonight.

    However, I did read this article/non-spoilery review of the first two episodes and have to say I am even more pumped for this right now.

    Also, I watched a movie called The Hunt with Mads Mikkelsen just because he was in it. It was a really good movie, but so fucking depressing. It's a really dark movie and all the more scary when you realize how one little event can completely ruin someone's life. I'd recommend it, but just be prepared to be in a very "fuck people" mood afterwards.
  9. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Unfortunately they couldn't get the budget necessary to show how he got the damn war elephants over the Swiss Alps so instead they made it about a dude that eats people.
  10. KatDJZ

    KatDJZ Moderator

    Don't worry, Vin Diesel is working on a Hannibal movie, lol.
  11. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Maan, now that's how you start off a new season with a bang. I was hooked in from the very first seconds of the episode and it didn't let go of its grip on me before the credits rolled. It was just as beautifully shot as before, the music was perfect and the couple of new characters added helped to open up the world a little bit now that Gram is confined.

    I'm going to post something more in depth but not until I watch this a second time. A fine meal like this needs a little time to digest. I just wanted to post that this show has gotten even stronger if this episode is any indication.
  12. LinkSword


    II - 01
    "I almost feel guilty eating it"
    "I never feel guilty eating anything" -- Quote of the week

    Terrific episode indeed. The 12-week flashforward was amazing, I know I'm going to love to see how all the pieces of the puzzle slowly fell into place for it to end to like that (quite the great fight choreography as well). I don't know if it'll take the entire season to get to that point or just a part of it, but either way it'll be quite a ride.

    Season 1 was great and all, but considering this episode and what's to come, it is more like a superb setup for the second season in which shit truly hits the fan. I'm liking this scenario in which Hannibal roams free and Graham struggles with his memories in prison more and more as I keep watching. Right now both Jack and even Alana seem convinced Graham did it - the point of debate is not even who the true murderer might be but whether or not Graham was conscious of what he did - as should be expected. So there is still a lot of work to be done with them both as new suspicions quietly lurk into the back of their minds.

    I loved the conversations of Hannibal with his psychiatrist and how bone-chillingly threatening the (understated) tone of Hannibal became as the FBI talk delved further. The psychiatrist is a great foil to tell us what's going through Hannibal's mind in a non-contrived manner (especially regarding Graham), and now that he's taking even more of a center stage that is greatly appreciated.

    Katz might be in trouble if she gets too close to the truth. Hannibal has already an eye set upon her, as he perhaps senses she's not completely convinced of Graham's guilt. There's this talk about the simple beauty of her work which is clear-cut, and that is clashing with her intuition that's probably telling her Graham might not be the killer. I doubt she came to see him just for ideas on the new killer's pattern.

    Some of the effects this episode were breathtaking, like Alana "merging" with Graham's mind or the food table with the "antler illusion". That thing is just the right amount of disturbing in how it's nearly faceless but not quite, and they use the imagery sparingly so it doesn't grow old or fall into camp territory.

    Finally, the black young man's situation at the end was legitly terrifying. Disoriented, nearly petrified, on the cold floor, surrounded by tens of dead bodies, not a soul around to hear his screams... Sent a chill down my spine.

    So this new season is truly shaping up to be just as well-written as the first, but even more exciting in content given the new positions the characters are in and how suspicion is now inbetween and not projected outward the main cast. Dialogue is still top-notch and the filming is beautiful... yes, we're in for something amazing once again.
  13. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Season 2 episode 1:

    I guess the first thing to mention is how much love this series has for the movies. I couldn't help but smile at all the not so subtle references there were in this episode. The thing that stop the references from getting tiring is the way the show always manages to remix them, usually the shots are almost identical, but they are done with different characters in different positions. For example
    the scene where Alanna is talking to Gram in his cell is straight out of Silence of the Lambs. The psychiatric prison hallway is almost a perfect match for the one in the movie, the brick walls, the dingy lighting, even the folding chair Alanna sits on is a match, the only thing that's changed is it's Alanna talking to Gram instead of Starling talking to Lecter. The shot is so perfectly framed as a visual reference that Alanna even sits in the same position as Staring and that kind of detail makes this show breathtaking.

    Another of the references got a pretty big laugh out of me. It was when Chilton just straight up stole Hannibal's quote about him from Red Dragon. It's one of the most memorable lines from that movie "Ah yes Dr. Chillton. Gruesome isn't he? Fumbles at your head like a freshman pulling at a panty girdle."

    The last really obvious reference comes from Red Dragon again. When the corner lady goes to see Gram to ask him about the murders, the way he asks for pictures is the exact same tone Hannibal uses when asking for pictures when Gram comes to him for help in Red Dragon.

    So the irony of this season isn't lost on the writers and creators of this show. As much talk as this episode had about Lecter being the new Gram, well just as much Gram is playing the role of Hannibal in the movies right now. The only difference is in the movies there is no doubt about Lecter's guilt.

    Also there is another awesome exchange in Red Dragon that I reeeeeeaaally hope gets referenced down the line. It's Lecter's first conversation with Gram in Red Dragon.

    Will Graham: I thought you might enjoy the challenge. Find out if you're smarter than the person I'm looking for.
    Hannibal Lecter: Then, by implication, you think you're smarter than I am, since it was you who caught me.
    Will Graham: No, I know I'm not smarter than you.
    Hannibal Lecter: Then how did you catch me?
    Will Graham: You had... disadvantages.
    Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?
    Will Graham: You're insane.

    After the events in the show that exchange would be all the more satisfying.

    About the episode itself:

    That's not to say that this show is content to ape the source material, in fact quite the opposite. This show boldly strikes out in it's own direction and does it's own thing, a prequel that doesn't shy away from changing things in return for a more interesting story experience. I love this show because it feels so familiar to me, but also very different because I don't really know what is going to happen. I mean, yes, eventually the tables are going to turn and Lecter will be the one behind bars, but that's something everyone watching the show knows. It's the how of all this that's the interesting part though.

    Which is where the episode is smart to start with a bang. I'm not always a fan of media en res scenes to start a new season as it feels cheap, but this one got me pumped, because it's not where the story is going, it's how it's going to get there. The fight between Crawford and Hannibal was filled with so many little details. I love the way both of the character's faces are reflected in Hannibal's knife, it's like this show in a nutshell, the show is all about reflections. What the characters look like to each other and what they actual look like. The charming debonair man, that's actually a monster, the FBI agent everyone thinks is insane, but is actually the only one that knows the truth.

    The fight isn't just pretty fluff though, it's brutal and this is another reason Mads is awesome in this role. He's really the first guy in the Hannibal role that has the physicality to be a plausible threat and it shows here. My favorite moment of the fight though show's Hannibal's cunning, when he pretends to be passed out so Jack would stop choking him long enough to grab that piece of glass to stab Jack with. Then Hannibal using his body as a battering ram on that door was just awesome.

    Something else struck me this episode is that we're essentially watching a smartly written take on super heroes in the real world. Hannibal's powers of perception and manipulation might as well be super human and on the other side you have Gram's power of empathy which make him open to manipulation, but allow him to perceive things no one else can see. Looking at that you have Hannibal as the super villain and Gram is the superhero. No they don't wear silly costumes, but instead have their fight in the most exciting theater of the mind. In the first season the super villain completely defeated the hero and this season is going to be the story of the hero's fight to come back and stop the villain from running rampant. This thought really comes to me when I think of Hannibal and Gram's relationship as seen by Hannibal through his conversations with his psychiatrist. Hannibal wants to match wits with someone that is his equal. The supervillain doesn't want to go against lesser opponents, but he wants his rival. Hannibal thinks of this combative relationship as friendship, but Gram has a closer understanding of the truth.

    And now that's Gram is behind bars...Hannibal does seem a bit lost. He's a got a bit to do to cover his own tracks, but he's a villain without a hero to fight at the moment. So instead he distracts himself by stepping into the shoes of the hero, "I got to be Will Gram today." He's just doing it because he wants something to do, even his psychiatrist questions what he's doing staying so close to the FBI at this point.

    Anyway, that stuff aside Gram just looks so fucked right now. Alanna is his only friend and even she doesn't really believe in him. Instead, she's just thinking up possible insanity defenses for him. Meanwhile, Gram's part of the episode is all about putting together his shattered sense of self. It's a painful process for him, but Hannibal had completely crushed his sense of identity by the end of the last season. The imagery used during these scenes is haunting and strangely beautiful in it's own way. It's here where the show captures something from the books that is missing from the other movies and that's this sense of Baroque horror. As good as the movies are they don't quite get the atmosphere of the story just right, but the show nails it perfectly.

    Any yes, that last scene did send a chill up my spine.
  14. LinkSword



    That was some... scrumptious-looking ossobuco... :drool: :nervous:

    The first scene was really cringey - it reminded me of some torture scenes in Saw, but better filmed/staged and also more painful-looking because in this case the person wasn't actually supposed to get away from his... bindings. The takes of the skin and flesh tearing apart... oh man.

    I "like" how he hit himself badly as he jumped off the cliff to his death. Far too many shows pull the "super high-risk escape in a desperate moment" thingy and it's nice how Hannibal got the most realistic outcome of the situation.

    Lots of interesting character interactions this episode.

    Bedelia (just now learned her name) and Hannibal's scenes were really tense. Katz is getting more of a role now and her little argument with Jack even gave a little insight on the latter's doubts. Jack insists in seeing Graham as a murderer and the guilt he has in all of it, but there's no way around the small doubt crawling up his brain, especially after Bedelia's cryptical cut of ties. She really had a lot of presence in this episode, and as the only person who's actually mainly suspecting of Hannibal and believing Will, she's a wildcard of sorts that Hannibal will have to eliminate some way or another (it seems she's a step ahead of his attempts at the moment).

    Will has a very interesting part to play now that he's sneakingly plotting against Hannibal while feigning confusion and helplessness. It would help if Katz were more discreet about their having an agreement because obviously Hannibal caught on that and Will knows he did. In any case, the next episode preview hints at him leaving the prison for the trial and I'm guessing he might have a chance to set up something else in that time period. The prosecution is definitely going all out for this case so there is no way he can win without outside-the-box moves.

    I enjoy how Hannibal actually played the murderer around his finger here to the point it felt to him as though Hannibal was helping. The murderer ending up in the middle of the great eye seemed both ironical and strangely befitting, and also made for some great imagery when Graham took his place. Once again loved the progressively more facially defined antler specter.

    The best moment I'm taking away from this episode is Bedelia's "I believe you" to Graham, as I have yet to see how this will affect his conviction and plans from now on.

    Also, there was a surprisingly low amount of Alana in this episode, but the third will probably make up for it during the trial scenes. Next Friday cannot come soon enough!
  15. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Season 2 episode 2

    I think this show needs to have a tongue in cheek cookbook made for it. It would be the perfect bit of dark comedy, which is an area where this show really excels. There is so much of the big baroque horror going on in this episode especially that first chilling scene, which is why it’s surprising when the episode does something so darkly funny, but I got a great laugh out of Hannibal dressed in his plastic slicker peering down the silo at the bodies and saying to the killer “hello! I love your work.” It’s just one of the many ways that this show excels at tonal shifts, it’s a moment of dark comedy so it doesn’t ruin the atmosphere, but instead gets a laugh out of me at just the right time.

    I could gush about how good every scene was this episode, but if I had to point to one brilliant moment in particular it would be the Ossobuco scene. At first glance it’s something we’ve seen many times before, Hannibal preparing another horrific meal for himself, but there is one big interesting different in this scene that points to the overall theme of the season. Before we’ve seen Hannibal kill and we’ve seen Hannibal prepare human flesh, but there’s always this sense of disconnect to it because we might see the kill, but by the time we cut to the kitchen the meat is already prepared to the point where it looks like it could animal meat, it’s already lost its human characteristics. Things are a bit different with this scene though because we actually see Hannibal in his kitchen; break down what is clearly a human body part to make his meal. It was a bit shocking to see him pull out an intact human leg, and then watch each step of him turning into a nothing more than a lump of flesh meant to be consumed.

    This scene tells a lot about this season because it’s not going to allow for any delusions about what Hannibal is. He’s a monster in the shape of a man that cannibalizes humans. This season is all about unmasking Hannibal, laying him bare. To take a phrase from Bedeila this season the audience is forced to look between the stiches that make up the human suit that Hannibal has crafted for himself. There are a lot of other hints at this in the first two episodes, but I felt like the Ossobuco scene was almost like the show yelling out the main theme of the season.

    Speaking of Bedeila, Gillian Anderson fucking nails the role. She is both smart and tough but also vulnerable, she knows to be afraid of Hannibal, but she’s also smart enough to get the fuck out of his way. She’s been tied to him because of events we haven’t seen, but I think we can all imagine how Hannibal manipulated that situation. Now though she’s seen too much of what Hannibal is and she smartly gets out of the way. Of course, Gillian Anderson is taking a break from the show because she has other projects to work on, but the fact that Hannibal isn’t able to kill her in the end, means that hopefully we will be seeing more of her in the future.

    With this whole theme of showing Hannibal for what he is we also start to see cracks forming in Hannibal’s set up of Will Gram. Now Gram is slowly starting to turn the tables, pretending to admit his guilt, asking Hannibal for help and Hannibal looks to be fooled by the act so far. Gram doesn’t stop there but now also has Katz locked into looking at the evidence all over again which should yield some interesting results when done behind Hannibal’s back without him having a chance to manipulate things.

    But there are even more obvious cracks forming. Hannibal told a rather silly lie to the FBI because he desired to get to the killer first. Given the circumstances they found the body in Hannibal telling them that it was just another body dump seems really preposterous for someone with his experience. The condition and location of this body clearly indicate that this was not just the killer dumping another imperfect model. Gram saw through this lie immediate and honestly, it shouldn’t even have taken Gram to do it, because even divorcing myself from having seen what had happened, it just seems logical to look around the area where this new body was found. The scene where Gram becomes a part of the mural in his eye was so completely chilling, especially when he looks up and the monster that’s been hunting him sudden has a face that’s taking shape. It just a brilliant scene that helps Gram get one step closer to the truth and brings Hannibal one step closer to the end of his freedom.

    The model killer isn’t really all that interesting, because he’s less a character and more there to reinforce the theme of the season. The eye mural that he thought would allow him to see for the first time. Just as this season is all about seeing things for what they truly are, especially Hannibal. Actually I think making the mural killer less of a character makes him even creepier. He’s just this force that’s creating this absolutely chilling work and his victims don’t even have any idea what’s happening to them. The shots of the mural from the top of the silo were just bone chilling because it really did look like a giant eye.

    Once again this episode was just beautifully shot and I was surprised by the amount of nudity it got away with. Granted it was cleverly shot so minimize what we were able to see, but with that many naked bodies it was impossible to hide everything. Especially in the scene at the end where Gram is fishing and the bodies go floating by.

    Anyway it was another brilliant episode and I think this show has found its balance. As great as the first season was it sometimes struggled to balance its ongoing narrative with the various serial killers of the week, but this season seems to integrate the two parts of the show much more smoothly. I can’t wait to see what comes next.

    Also, am I the only one that finds Bedeila incredibly attractive? She just oozes class.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  16. LinkSword


    Absolutely cannot wait for the trial today. The episode pictures constantly popping up in my Facebook feed are not helping at all in containing my excitement... :@_@:
  17. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Oh man, I totally forgot today was Friday. I'm going to be all over this one when it airs tonight. Last week I got caught up in the True Detectives season finale, but now that it's over I can focus fully on Hannibal. This show is so exciting for all the potential it has right now. They have upped their game even more this season and this potentially could be a show that takes on major paradigm shifts with each season with an ever changing dynamic.
  18. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    I'm going to watch the episode a second time and post my thoughts later tonight, but for the meantime have some fan art.


    Then my favorite one:


    And then because this is an anime/manga forum:

  19. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Season 2 episode 3:

    It occurs to me that a lot of what we're watching this season is a twisted darkly comedic rom-com with Hannibal being the overeager girl that throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way, only when Hannibal throws a tantrum
    a judge ends up with the brain cut from his skull.

    All jokes aside though this episode had more Will Gram than the first two episodes and yet he wasn't really the focus on the episode, instead he's just the body everyone is orbiting around. He has some great lines and Hugh Dancy doesn't a fucking fine job with his reactions. The pain in his eyes when Alana denies her feelings for him so she can possibly take the stand or his dawning horror when he realizes that when Hannibal says he is on Will's side, Hannibal really means it in his own twisted way. “This killer wrote you a poem. Are you going to let his love go to waste?” Jeez, Hannibal just ask Will out on a date already...

    The other big theme of this episode is Hannibal's loneliness without Will is starting to make him unravel a bit. His work on the bailiff was quite sloppy. Last season when Hannibal did the copycat Shrike kill Will was the only one that noticed the difference from the real thing, but this time around everyone knew that this was the work of a copycat. It's another misstep on Hannibal's part, but what makes it even funnier, is that Hannibal has been so good as making sure everything always turned out his way and yet he is stymied by the US Judicial System when the judge throws out the new defense he has prepared for Will and Hannibal does not react well to this. Instead, he literally strings the judge up and removes his brain.

    Mads Mikkelsen once again nails this episode though. He is such a great Hannibal and his reactions here, his manipulations are exactly the sort of thing Thomas Harris had in mind when he created this character. I think my favorite bit of the episode was Hannibal's little smirk when the prosecutor accused Gram of being the smartest man in the room. Hannibal is so sure of his superiority that he can't do anything, but allow himself that one little smirk.

    The rest of the trial scenes also have a feeling of dream like farce to them as well. Chilton is deliciously campy with his testimony and Freddy Lounds in that silly hat was even more ridiculous in a way that really fits the surreal atmosphere of everything that is going on in this show at the moment. This was actually the most plot that's been in the first three episodes of the new season and the writing is superb once again with each of the characters getting in a few great lines that encapsulate their feelings for Will Gram and his position. It all works because the audience knows this trial is a farce set into motion by Hannibal anyway.

    Even Jack Crawford is prepared to torch his career for Will, until his conversation with Hannibal which yields just the kind of hurtful and truthful remark that we've come to expect from Hannibal about Crawford's dying wife. Meanwhile, Will is left to ponder what happened to the rest of Abigail, a question that is much deeper than it seems, because he means much more than what happened to the rest of her body, but also what happened to the sweet girl that he thought he'd rescued. What had awakened the darkness inside of her before she was killed.

    Awesome episode once again.
  20. ZetsubouKaiji

    ZetsubouKaiji Forum Moderator Database Moderator

    Looking through the fanart for this show reminds me that fujioshi have interests in more than just anime and manga. I know there's a definite subtext between Hannibal and Will, but the fujioshi have just run away with it in some of the fanart.

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