Comics and Graphic Novels Discussion

[Naga]

Currently on Dylan Dog issue 40#, 200 more to go I guess.

Maybe I'll drop it after Scalavi stops writing and just pick up Alan Ford again.

 

[Schizm]

Resumed reading Gotham Academy recently and now starting Second Semester.

I think Kerschl's art and Geyser's colouring are just amazing and sometimes I just keep staring at some of the bigger panels for minutes before continuing to get absorbed in the spooky mystery high school drama. Maps is a great and energized character who's fun to watch and I like the members of the Detective Club in general, even if Colton Rivera comes off as one of the mischievous Weasley twins + sunglasses a little.

Definitely not putting this away for a while.

 

[BrainBlow]

Stand Still. Stay Silent gave me a terrible reminder of why it's my absolute favorite webcomic, and one of my favorite comics in general. What's up with Finns and their storytelling?
And god dammit, including (heartrending) symbolism from Finnish mythology that I only knew of because of her previous comic from before SSSS explaining it!
Rip my heart out of my chest and play my heart strings like a guitar, Minna Sundberg, you terrible beast!
Oh jeez, tears. Yep. Crying. Not sure why I put on The swan of Tuonela. just because someone linked it in the comments.

Anyways, SSSS is the best webcomic there is, and you should read it.

On a brighter note, Daughter of the Lillies is back from its chapter break, and I'm quite eager for the story to enter its "present day" stage.

 

[Jamie]

My LCS may be closing shop. Owner is dealing with some personal issues currently and the shop has not been as profitable as he needs it to be. As a possible final hurrah to get people into the store and for the store to prove it's worth sticking with, he's having a massive sale.

50¢ on all back issues marked $10 or less, or 35¢ if paid in cash.
50% off back issues marked $10 or higher, extra 15% off if paid in cash.
50% off all trades, buy 5 get 1 free, or 2 free if paid in cash.

Sale runs until Sunday.

I took advantage of it today.

1st spotted this in the long boxes.

This is actually a pretty controversial series. Kevin Smith kind of went nuts here.

Racist Nazi power armor actually wasn't the problem for most people. It was mostly him writing Batman admitting that he basically pissed himself once.

Anyways, after spotting that, I see a ton of Fables back issues. I didn't get into Fables soon enough to bother picking it up as it came out, so I read it through trades. But, at these prices, I can't not pick up most of the singles. Also, if it wasn't for already having a 1st printing of #1 (slight crease on the cover, still looks great though) I wouldn't bother. So I went through what he had and ended up getting 100 out of 150 of the issues.

$40 for all of those back issues is fan-fucking-tastic.

But wait! There's more!

Got some trades too. Decided it's a pretty good deal to finally get in on Usagi Yojimbo and Invincible. He didn't have a vol. 1 of Invincible, but eh, I'll pick one up later. Snagged Batman: The Cult based on a friend's recommendation and Joe the Barbarian is for a friend. I think she'll enjoy it.

 

[Jamie]

NPR did a top 100 favorites GN list. No particular order, but there is a seperation by genre of sorts.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/12/533862948/lets-get-graphic-100-favorite-comics-and-graphic-novels

The reddit thread/post on it brings up some good discussion as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/6vxu1e/lets_get_graphic_100_favorite_comics_and_graphic/

Gotta agree with those saying there's a bit of bias going on considering the reasoning behind omitting some pretty big/good works.

Otherwise, still a solid list.

 

[thor123]

NPR did a top 100 favorites GN list. No particular order, but there is a seperation by genre of sorts.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/12/533862948/lets-get-graphic-100-favorite-comics-and-graphic-novels

The reddit thread/post on it brings up some good discussion as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/6vxu1e/lets_get_graphic_100_favorite_comics_and_graphic/

Gotta agree with those saying there's a bit of bias going on considering the reasoning behind omitting some pretty big/good works.

Otherwise, still a solid list.

what's the point of doing a poll if you're going to ignore it and have the judges decide which comics get to stay in the list?

 

[HasseRovdjur]

I've churned through all eight current Dark Horse Usagi Yojimbo omnibuses, and it's been a right blast. A lot of it is fairly simple stuff, but it's incredibly entertaining, and Sakai is great at doing a lot with limited means and no gimmicks. There are no colours, no big splash pages, and no fancy panel experiments and so on. It all feels very classic and timeless, despite the eighties roots, what with the cartoon animals, B&W comics, samurai and ninjas galore.

His art is fairly consistent, but you can tell it's developed as time has passed, and it's for the better. The same goes for the stories. They are all of good quality, but the focus has gotten a bit better as of late.

 

[Guest]

Comic books, in the context of this thread, are American versions of the Japanese manga that most consider vastly superior to comics because anything from Japan is better than anything from America. That's just a complete and utter truth. This thread is where we can discuss our favorite comic books, the silliest moments, so on and so forth. I don't even know if anyone reads the damn things anymore or keeps up with anything so if worse comes to worse the thread will disappear into the ether like pretty much every comic book series I've ever paid attention to.

I bring this subject up mostly because I've been reading Gwenpool. A friend of mine brought her up and I decided to look into it. Found that it's actually a very good starting point/entry-level comic for newbies or those who have fallen off the wagon alike. Lots of references to old comic books (a very obscure reference to the creator of The Invisibles, a man who was inspired by aliens he met when abducted in Katmandu) and a lot of crossover with the new batch of millennial-inspired remakes of Spider-Man, Ghost Rider and so forth. What I thought would be a cross between Gwen Stacey and Deadpool turned out to be a pretty decent parody of comic books as a whole and a cute, obviously anime inspired story about an adorable comic book nerd NEET who gets sucked into the Marvel universe and decides that as the main character of her own comic, she can do whatever she wants. It's had a lot of rocky issues and the art blows anytime someone other than the main artist is involved (very anime style, again). Overall, it's getting me wanting to read some of the classics I've neglected or never finished.

Anywho, comic books. Let's discuss.

 

[Jamie]

There is a comics thread already in existance somewhere...

Yeah, here it is.

Gwenpool is garbage that shouldn't exist. Spider-Gwen blew up like STDs in a retirement community and Gwenpool is the shitty result. No one needs more Deadpool. And considering she's got such an assinine origin/creation point, I wouldn't recommend her, or any Marvel or DC title, as a starting point.

Get on dat indie title tiddy.

Off the top of my head, East of West, Birthright, Rat Queens, Black Science, Spread, Papergirls, Copperhead, I Hate Fairyland, Atomic Robo, Mirage 's TMNT, Archie's TMNT, IDW's TMNT, Rose, Royal City, Sex Criminals, Hinterkind, Shutter, Shirtless Bear-Fighter, God Hates Astronauts, The Pro, Luther Strode, Southern Bastards, Tokyo Ghost, Chrononauts, Punk Rock Jesus, Saga, Invincible, Walking Dead, Sandman, Hellboy, Fables, Jack of Fables, Fairest, Y the Last Man, Preacher, Mouse Guard, The Mice Templar, Transmetropolitan, The Goon, The Rocketeer, V for Vendetta, Perhapanauts, The Boys, Irredeemable, Incorruptible, Life & Times of Scrooge McDuck, Battle Pope, Get Jiro, Strangers in Paradise... and I know I'm forgetting a lot, and that's just stuff from my personal tatses.

I feel pretty confident recommending all of those... wait, maybe not Battle Pope, Shirtless Bear-Fighter, God Hates Astronauts, The Pro and/or I Hate Fairyland (even though they're all fucking hilarious). No wait, those 5 are sort of right up A-P's alley. Sort of.

 

[Guest]

Gwenpool is garbage that shouldn't exist. Spider-Gwen blew up like STDs in a retirement community and Gwenpool is the shitty result. No one needs more Deadpool. And considering she's got such an assinine origin/creation point, I wouldn't recommend her, or any Marvel or DC title, as a starting point.

Gwenpool is less the result of Spider-Gwen, more the result of Batgirl I'd say. The comics market is tapping into the teenager/teenage girl sector a lot harder than I've ever seen. Batgirl was the first really popular one where it was a reboot of a classic character full of anime references, nudges toward the fact she's a hipster who likes vinyl, trying to be relatable to a demographic that was never really reading comic books. If nothing else, I feel like Gwenpool as become Marvel's Batgirl.

Spider-Gwen has nothing to do with Gwenpool. Gwenpool was a joke side character in Howard the Duck (which itself was a joke comic) who wound up with her own comic because people liked her. And I'd argue she's not exactly Deadpool either. She has the same sort of fourth-wall breaking schtick but they've made attempts to make her a more relatable character with a lot better human characteristics. Reading through her run so far, the fact her name is Gwen is most likely a joke and they've already established that the Deadpool connection was a joke because she never read Deadpool in the real world. And the comic itself has done interesting things with the fourth wall breaking that Deadpool has never toyed with. I'm not saying it's an amazing comic in the least because it doesn't hold a candle to a lot of the adult series. But for the demographic it aims for, it's a very interesting comic that's succeeding quite well in getting otherwise passive or non-comic book fans into comics.

And her origin is meant to be the obvious connection between the reader and the comic. It's a self-insert comic that doesn't take itself seriously. It's entry level with a lot of its writing and the characters but it's also got some pretty great nuggets for older comic fans. There's a reference to The Invisibles in Issue 17 that was totally gonna go over the head of 99 percent of Gwenpool readers.

Anyway, for what it is, I quite enjoyed 80 percent of it. I've been out of comic books for so long so I appreciate anything that slides me back in.

 

[Jamie]

I think ya may be reading too deeply into what Gwenpool is.

If not for Spider-Gwen blowing up, and I'm glad it did since I made a nice little profit on selling my copy of Edge of Spider-verse #2, Gwenpool would not exist. It's just another example of Marvel tossing darts. Honestly, Spider-Gwen would have been better off having stayed a simple what-if story. But I'm guilty of feeding that beast, so maybe I don't get to say too much more in that regard.

When I was reading too damn much Marvel and DC I didn't have time to be bothered with something like Gwenpool. I certainly didn't care for her when I read Howard the Duck. A man only has so much time, and more importantly, money. Weekly comics got out of control for me, and I've since drastically cut them back. Anyways, what I'm saying is they failed to sell me on Gwenpool when they had the chance.

Also, in other Gwen Stacey related dealings, I had to stop reading Spider-Man altogether during the most recent shitty clone saga. That was the last straw for me and I still think Dan Slott needs to be yanked off of Spider-Man. Everyone has their breaking point, and retconning a pivotal, character defining moment in Spider-Man's history did it for me.

Moving on, if I want to get someone into comics, I mostly stay away from Marvel and DC now. Showing people that comics are far more than superheros goes a long way into creating a comics readers. At the very least, flipping their idea of super heroes is a start. Invincible, Irredeemable, Incorruptible, The Boys, and Watchmen all do a hell of a job doing just that.

 

[Guest]

Gwenpool, Spider Gwen, and the whole line-up of the new age Marvel landscape (Miles Morales as Spider-Man, female Hawkeye, latino Ghost Rider) are obviously a push from Disney who saw comic book sales dropping because they didn't appeal to younger girls/boys and were targeting a very specific demographic who wasn't really picking up copies anyway. It's a bid toward a newer audience, one that I see somewhat working but so few teens even think about walking into a comic book store, and so many people would rather spend money on more-bang-for-your-back manga. Gwenpool, and I wish I'd said this before, is basically Star Vs. The Forces of Evil in comic book form. And I'm glad it's working for a lot of younger people, even if they are reading into a segment of comics that is sub-par and unfulfilling.

But I'm also glad they aren't reading Batgirl. Because when DC interrupted a pretty good run to turn her into a college aged suburban hipster, I wasn't totally opposed, but the more I read it the more it was trying sooooo hard to appeal to a group it had no grasp on.

I started the Invisibles. As a fellow fan of LSD, I can say that Grant Morrison, who says he got the idea for the series when abducted by aliens on Katmandu, has done a fine job of emulating the kind of political/social satire that the drug brings out in you as well as the weird asides and totally off-the-wall writing that comes out. It's trippy as hell and I dig it.

 

[HasseRovdjur]

I have only two comics on my pull list on comixology: Paper Girls and Giant Days. I have other titles that I read when I remember that they exist, but they've usually been discounted by then. Besides, I like to binge read.

The fact that they are released on the same day means that the rest of my comics budget goes to sales, so I have been reading more superhero stuff than what is healthy (as in, at all). I got a lot of it during some cyberblackfriday dealios, and I am not really regretful about spending not a lot of money on a lot of comics.

Superman: American Alien was a hoot, the Lemire run on Hawkguy was really meh (hard to top the Fraction run), Silk and Hellcat were less meh, and there some squandered opportunities with Cass during the League of Shadows throwdown. Marcio Takara's art was way cool, though.

 

[Jamie]

But I'm also glad they aren't reading Batgirl. Because when DC interrupted a pretty good run to turn her into a college aged suburban hipster, I wasn't totally opposed, but the more I read it the more it was trying sooooo hard to appeal to a group it had no grasp on.

My gripe with Batgirl is that Barbara Gordon walks. To be fair, The Killing Joke was never meant to be canon, but it ended up being so anyways. And it gave way for fantastic character development and the creation of a relatable character for the disabled. And don't try to tell me about DareDevil. I like the character, but it's a classic case of old Stan not really being all that clever... he's a blind man that can see!.

DC had multiple choices for Batgirl, one that fans had been clamoring for the return of as Batgirl from the moment she stopped being the character. And it wasn't Barbara, it was Stephanie. Instead, they turned her into an annoying brat after the recent-ish fake death of Tim Drake. Granted DC rarely ever listens to it's fans, or it's creators, and will outright lie to both. Dan Didio is human garbage.

That escalated quickly, but I don't regret that remark about Didio. Fuck him, that fucker lied straight to my face, and every face, at a panel years ago when DC was touting $2.99, $2.99, $2.99.

 

[Guest]

Did the suit get passed on and Barbara maintained her place as Oracle? I haven't paid much attention to DC so I'm not the guy to discuss this. I liked Batgirl because she was a badass lady who could stand on her own without Batman jumping in to save her. I like the idea of Barbara as The Oracle if only because she could play support for Batman/Batgirl/Robin while still being a badass. Like, the newer Batgirl comic essentially gives Batgirl this weird superpower where she's crazy good with technology beyond a reasonable human standard which was another huge turn-off for me. We see her as some stupid college girl waking up with a hangover, probably sleeping with a random dude, and then she turns on detective vision and is the greatest detective imaginable. It's too much of a tonal/character shift for me to believe. I think the only thing I like about New 52 Batgirl is the fact her costume is a lot more streamlined and less military armor-y. I just like that design better.

I think the biggest problem for me with comic books is their prices are outrageous. I don't see how anyone can keep up with all the big releases when they range from four to six dollars every month. And so many of them I can read in two minutes. And there are never any series that seem to last longer than twelve issues, everything is cancelled or changed so much I can hardly keep up. And then when it comes back...we get Frankencastle. Ugh.

 

[Jamie]

Oh no, in DC's infinite wisdom, after doing a hard reboot, again, Barbara had surgery and after a couple months of physical therapy is back to somersaulting and twisting about more than Tony Hawk at the X-Games.

The costume? Explained as her wanting to get back into the game, so to speak, but having to make her own costume since she doesn't have one. So she happened to have just the right bits and bobbles laying around to make a passable costume that any hipster would love to be seen in before anyone else. And yeah, they still want to act like she can do the double duty of being Batgirl and Oracle rolled into one.

But really, the most insulting thing is that Barbara went from a woman that had lived life and knew what she wanted out of it to being a college girl making the best of things as she tries to find herself.

But DC still wants to have it's cake and eat it too since they want to still act like all the history still exists, just somehow condensed into 5 years.

Shit you not, DC expects people to believe that since New 52, the entirety of Batman history and mythos has taken place in just 5 years. Which makes Bruce look pretty damn awful if he's gone through a Robin every damn year (shit you not, there are 5 canon Robins... I mean, if Stephanie still counts).

I tried to read Marvel and DC for the stories, tried not letting canon inconsistencies get to me. But it's pretty fucking bad when X-Men has more consistent and easier to follow canon than Batman and Spider-Man.

Which, goddamn, don't even get me started on those being the big 3 with multi-title syndrome problems.

 

[Guest]

That's my problem with comics as a whole at this point. I can't just jump in and start from a beginning point because all they fucking do is reference other comics and other series over and over. It's this giant clusterfuck multiverse that doesn't allow for new readers to feel entirely at ease jumping in and I'm sure veteran comic fans are constantly annoyed by the number of reboots, remakes, sequels, and so forth that keep cropping up every year. It's like these base characters exist and then fan fiction writers are allowed to write stories for them and whether they actually add up to a consistent timeline doesn't matter. Again, that's what I liked about Gwenpool. It was a starting point that doesn't force me to reference ten thousand other comics and only ever refers you back to previous issues of that comic. I'm not bombarded nonstop by ads for a dozen other comics that will then bombard me with a dozen ads for other comics, so on and so forth.

I'm gonna dig through some of the mature and classic comics that are more self-contained. I'll tackle Invisibles, Y, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, see where I can go from there. Obviously the superhero comics are too big a clusterfuck to be worth involving myself.

 

[ZetsubouKaiji]

Merged the two comics threads together.

I haven't read comic books much since the 90s. I'll check things out every now and again, but for the most part I'm so far out of the game I don't think I'll ever get back in. That being said this is the greatest comic panel of all time.

 

[Schizm]

I will hate DiDio for the rest of my life and never stop complaining about him erasing Cass and Steph from existence simply because he didn't like them. They returned in New 52 continuity fairly recently, but especially Cass's backstory is pretty much fucked now and it's just not her anymore. Also agree that Barb was more helpful as Oracle and actually a lot more badass. Haven't read Burnside yet, but according to some people on here it's pretty enjoyable.

Only Batman comic I read right now is Gotham Academy. I stopped reading Batman after Endgame when

Spoiler

Gordon became Bunny Mech Suit Batman

and I already had issues with him because of the New 52 timeline and Death of the Family which was mostly garbage.

I haven't really been reading Spider-Man since the whole Superior bullshit with Doc Ock but I'm interested in Spider-Verse atm. Also wanna get into Judge Dredd more.

 

[Jamie]

That's my problem with comics as a whole at this point. I can't just jump in and start from a beginning point because all they fucking do is reference other comics and other series over and over. It's this giant clusterfuck multiverse that doesn't allow for new readers to feel entirely at ease jumping in and I'm sure veteran comic fans are constantly annoyed by the number of reboots, remakes, sequels, and so forth that keep cropping up every year. It's like these base characters exist and then fan fiction writers are allowed to write stories for them and whether they actually add up to a consistent timeline doesn't matter.

And they do that reboot shit in an attempt to get new readers. Problem is, since they do it every year or 3 now it just makes it all the more confusing for new readers. I'd like to think that the fact that Marvel only ever done soft reboots is less confusing, but I know that's likely because I have a more informed knowledge of the history of Marvel books and characters than DC. Because while I did enjoy and do like some of the replacement characters of long standing heroes, it's still confusing for people coming in from the movies.

Like if someone wants to read Thor because they enjoyed the movies. They go to their LCS to get the newest Thor book only to discover woman is Thor now, but Thor is also still the Odinson, he just isn't worthy.

Which, If anyone does want to read Thor, I can not recommend Thor: God of Thunder enough. Jason Aaron wrote one of the most epic and amazing Thor stories ever and Esad Ribic gave it some of the best art for a Thor book since Walt Simonson.

Merged the two comics threads together.

I haven't read comic books much since the 90s. I'll check things out every now and again, but for the most part I'm so far out of the game I don't think I'll ever get back in. That being said this is the greatest comic panel of all time.

I shamefully know that's from Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose. A book where every woman has tits the size of melons and they are naked as often as they are clothed... no wait, I take that back. I think they're naked more often than not.

Only Batman comic I read right now is Gotham Academy.

Gotham Academy didn't get the love it deserved. A quality, self contained book that hints at the greater Batman mythos while still being it's own thing dealing with the mysterious history of Gotham itself. It's sort of like Scooby-Doo crossed with Harry Potter and sprinkled with Batman.