[Analysis] Makoto Shinkai is making a new film
- Thread starter Magicknight94
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Zed
Database Moderator
keep in mind that normally you wouldn't even get a second chance, and using the time reset as nothing but a way to wipe out a bad ending IS a forced happy ending and escapism nonsense, a conflict is meaningless if it never happened, it might as well be a dream.
Rascal
Gold Supporter
isnt the fact that the body switching is like dreaming kind of the point though? "Mitsuha? You're dreaming right now, aren't you?" And then the entire concept of how whenever they switch back its fuzzy and they lose their memories. It is a dream. If they failed in that dream the bad ending would have happened. You wanted it to stay a tragedy and for taki to fail? Sure but that would end up being some stupid tragedy where nothing is gained, and I fucking hate meaningless tragedy. The event wasnt meaningless because it formed their relationship, and they proved the conflict wasnt meaningless to everyone else, because before it, everyone was dead. After, not dead.
q66
Active Member
The first part was fairly serviceable comedy, but it made zero effort to develop the characters to give them some personality (and if it didn't, what the hell was it there for?) and most importantly develop the relationship to make the later part not entirely forced and somewhat believable. And well, the later part only really works if lazy plot conveniences don't bother you, to me it just felt like contrived nonsense bunch of ideas that started snowballing on, culminating into predictable melodramatic bullshit of an ending that felt like it's been done a million times before.
ZetsubouKaiji
Well-Known Member
The way the first half is paced is awful. There's a ton of time spent on belabored setup for the generic characters that doesn't tell us much more than the basics about them. Then it rushes through things that key to emotional core of the movie. A lot of the initial stuff could have been skipped. She's from the country and not satisfied with her existence. He's from the city and lives of hurried city life. It takes a few minutes to establish and then they can actually do some relationship building through the body switching rather than doing it in montages. The movie doesn't even come close to touching the potential for unique relationship challenges in the body switching, because it wants to tell some
boring hackneyed and rushed time reset story in the second half.
Zed
Database Moderator
i can't consider their relationship a good one either, like ZK said said before, it was thrown together through a montage instead of properly building it, and it was removed anyway with amnesia in the end, which was also negated in the ending scene, the movie runs of convenient and the notion of "the plot demands it, so it'll happen" not to mention how to doesn't make sense nor does try to make any or excuse any of it's conveniences. also, it's not a matter if it's real life or not, it's a matter of having in world consistant rules, which it doesn't.
i know, i'm an asshole :P
i know, i'm an asshole :P
Rascal
Gold Supporter
I barely found the first part funny, all it did was, yes, give them their personality by showing you how different they are when switched versus not. That was enough becaude the focus was meant to be on their relationship and later plot. I was never impressed during this phase of the film. I normally hate body switching stories anyway. As for plot conveniences, i don't see that either. Every plot device was set up in advance
the sake in the shrine, taki memorizing how the village looked and drawing it, her meeting him beforehand at the station, were all set up and clicked into place one after another.
So to you the first half is too slow, the second while covering more intense material is too fast. I can at least partially agree on the first part, which i never liked until the second time watching. However as ive said it wanted to connect these two parts and culminate in this story and... i don't know what you mean by fleshed out tbh, i mean for what it was everyone was about as fleshed out as they could be with such a short time. It's a movie. They could have stuck with just one of those plots and that would have been well and good for you... but it wouldnt have been GREAT. I personally wouldnt have liked it if they focused less or more on either point, its pretty balanced.
Also i probably shouldnt be arguing all this in the middle of class lol ill be terribly inarticulate...
Zed
Database Moderator
but bullying you by telling you why your favorite anime is shit is more important than class!
ZetsubouKaiji
Well-Known Member
One will help prepare you for the hardships in life, the other is college.
Gens
Database Moderator
Counter-point, that cat short was actually pretty damn good, and feelzy. He should just get into the shorts business instead. Simple concept, but he manages to squeeze the most out of it.
Who's a good cat? Yes you are. It stands above any full length feature Shinkai's done for me.
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thor123
Well-Known Member
I also liked Garden of Words. Seems like his stuff stops appealing to me once it's over 1 hour longCounter-point, that cat short was actually pretty damn good, and feelzy. He should just get into the shorts business instead. Simple concept, but he manages to squeeze the most out of it.
Who's a good cat? Yes you are. It stands above any full length feature Shinkai's done for me.
Rascal
Gold Supporter
It's not bullying if I'm still fighting back, taking you all on at once
Its his rare move, high effort posting, where he makes high effort posts where they dont matter!
Here we go
ok i have a good argument for this actually.
well in the case of the rules being consistant, let's look at the facts. One thing is, the only thing causing the phenomenon isn't identified in the story specifically so we're meant to believe that time somehow managed to get tangled up.
We can also infer that it has something to do with a meteor, or maybe, that the meteor is also effected, given that both times in the world where the meteor appeared, present day mitsuha and previously for her grandmother, it hit that same spot in the world. In the same scenario with her grandma we know that she switched bodies with someone too. In my opinion, this along with taki's trip into meteor-dreams can be explained by a constant supernatural power in the world, or, i could say that in that world God or gods exist.
Because it so conveniently happened that a meteor landed in the same spot under the same conditions twice, AND not to mention all the other weird conveniences, wouldn't it be safe to rule plot conveniences and coincidences out at that point? I think that the seemingly convenient happy ending was driven by a key thing grandma said that people overlook about the movie, the theme of a union. When the meteor event caused them to switch bodies i think that created a supernatural connection between the two, basically tying their destinies together so that they'd end up together one way or another. It's even symbolized by an item, the hairband, and then when they arent together before the end, they feel it missing and "conveniently" are drawn together.
Dont forget they almost lost it too, when they stopped switching because time got its shit together- yet taki was able to reform that bond by drinking the sake she... made. That part always was a little gross... you even see the hairband connecting them again in the following scene.
Basically my argument is that plot conveniences and coincidences could be explained by the existance of a higher power that WANTS these two kids together, and therefore the plot conveniences should be forgiven. It was supposed to be convenient.
well in the case of the rules being consistant, let's look at the facts. One thing is, the only thing causing the phenomenon isn't identified in the story specifically so we're meant to believe that time somehow managed to get tangled up.
We can also infer that it has something to do with a meteor, or maybe, that the meteor is also effected, given that both times in the world where the meteor appeared, present day mitsuha and previously for her grandmother, it hit that same spot in the world. In the same scenario with her grandma we know that she switched bodies with someone too. In my opinion, this along with taki's trip into meteor-dreams can be explained by a constant supernatural power in the world, or, i could say that in that world God or gods exist.
Because it so conveniently happened that a meteor landed in the same spot under the same conditions twice, AND not to mention all the other weird conveniences, wouldn't it be safe to rule plot conveniences and coincidences out at that point? I think that the seemingly convenient happy ending was driven by a key thing grandma said that people overlook about the movie, the theme of a union. When the meteor event caused them to switch bodies i think that created a supernatural connection between the two, basically tying their destinies together so that they'd end up together one way or another. It's even symbolized by an item, the hairband, and then when they arent together before the end, they feel it missing and "conveniently" are drawn together.
Dont forget they almost lost it too, when they stopped switching because time got its shit together- yet taki was able to reform that bond by drinking the sake she... made. That part always was a little gross... you even see the hairband connecting them again in the following scene.
Basically my argument is that plot conveniences and coincidences could be explained by the existance of a higher power that WANTS these two kids together, and therefore the plot conveniences should be forgiven. It was supposed to be convenient.
Zed
Database Moderator
challenge acceptedIt's not bullying if I'm still fighting back, taking you all on at once
Its his rare move, high effort posting, where he makes high effort posts where they dont matter!
but everything you said are just theories and excuses the movie never even bothered to think about them, we were told that the body switching and the time travel are happening in order to save the town, but their source is never explained, just some random stuff that are happening just for the sake of convenience. self given explanations don't count
Rascal
Gold Supporter
challenge accepted
but everything you said are just theories and excuses the movie never even bothered to think about them, we were told that the body switching and the time travel are happening in order to save the town, but their source is never explained, just some random stuff that are happening just for the sake of convenience. self given explanations don't count
well you could see it that way, but not everything especially in a film like this is meant to lay everything out for you. It's a theory, but i'm using all the hints they gave us that never went anywhere if you don't consider that they're connected. If i was completely wrong and there wasnt enough evidence, it would be a weird movie meant to be taken on the surface level with weird sequences that are just hanging out needlessly. I'm pretty confident that they expected the viewer to read between the lines here though. Like if they werent tied together through some kind of spiritual force, then what was the point of the "you're dreaming" sequence with grandma and the lecture before that? It just makes no sense that it's only there to fill time. In a movie that has as great presentation as your name, the last thing they want is to spend time with exposition, explaining how everything works so it would make sense that instead they'd hide the origins and let you discover it by piecing things together so they could focus on the actual narritive.
If your name was a TV series, however, they would definitely explain themselves.
But I suppose it is just a theory, a WEEB theory.
If your name was a TV series, however, they would definitely explain themselves.
But I suppose it is just a theory, a WEEB theory.
Zed
Database Moderator
my point is that a story that can't properly explain it's own problems isn't really a well written story. also your waifu is shit.
...
i can't believe i had a long argument that included time resets without singing praise to Tatami galaxy, that's not right, gotta fix that immediately.... uhhh Tatami's OP has some of the best beats in any anime i've ever seen, ok FIXED.
Rascal
Gold Supporter
Sure- i can see that.
and
AGREED. That show's OP has some of the most nostalgic music for me, it is 100% the shit i listened to as a kid but in japanese.
THE FUCKD YOU SAY ABOUT MY WAIFU HOW DARE
Rascal
Gold Supporter
q66
Active Member
Starletka
Silver Supporter
