Anime Clichés You Hate!

DarkLordSatan said:
How can you be a fujoshi and not be creepy when you drool over all sorts of fucked up relationships and then use LGBT as an excuse to defend it if anyone even dares to call it problematic.
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Do you know AnnaSartin personally? Do you know what type of relationships she drools over/if she even drools over relationships in the first place? This is kinda a weird thing to say unless you've seen this person drool over bad relationships.

Being a fujoshi/fudanshi ≠ liking fucked up relationships.
 
DarkLordSatan said:
How can you be a fujoshi and not be creepy when you drool over all sorts of fucked up relationships and then use LGBT as an excuse to defend it if anyone even dares to call it problematic.
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I'm not personally a fan of fucked up relationships, sorry. I've read things like Killing Stalking, yes, but do not consider it a romance in the least. My only ships in that series are Bum x Mental Health Facility and Sangwoo x Maximum Security Penitentiary For the Criminally Insane. I'll also add that fucked up relationships aren't just contained to yaoi. Yuri and heterosexual relationship stories are also full of problematic pairings ranging from eyebrow-raisers (a guy following the girl he likes "because he wants to know more about her" is STALKING, and groping her breasts is SEXUAL HARASSMENT) to downright disturbing (No, a mother getting sexually involved with her daughter is NOT romantic). And then there's the old "He raped me and now I LOVE him!" trope that many stories - including yaoi - are full of. I don't deny any of this, nor do I glorify it. But it is what is, and clearly there are enough people buying it or they wouldn't still be making it. But trying to kink-shame strangers on the internet for what they consume isn't helpful or kind. Person A complaining about person B being into yaoi when they go home and watch tentacle hentai is hypocritical. (No, I'm not saying that you specifically like tentacle porn, I'm saying different strokes for different folks and there's no need to be overly judgy about it).
 
daisicles said:
Because fujoshi just means that you're a fan of m/m relationships in fiction? Being interested in fucked-up relationships is not actually a requirement, plenty of people only go for the cute soft handholding.

I'm really sorry that the girl who sits behind you in 3rd period thinks Killing Stalking is a sexy romance and wants to share bad fanfic with you, because that's the only reason I can think of that you've decided to create a strawman to attack every time someone says the word "fujoshi", but she's not representative of everyone.
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First try and mention any mlm relationships aside from YOI that isn't fucked up. The entire genre is full of it.
 
Max4444 said:
Do you know AnnaSartin personally? Do you know what type of relationships she drools over/if she even drools over relationships in the first place? This is kinda a weird thing to say unless you've seen this person drool over bad relationships.

Being a fujoshi/fudanshi ≠ liking fucked up relationships.
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Her list clearly says otherwise, I recognize many series in there that contain rape and favorite characters that are abusive.
 
AnnaSartin said:
I'm not personally a fan of fucked up relationships, sorry. I've read things like Killing Stalking, yes, but do not consider it a romance in the least. My only ships in that series are Bum x Mental Health Facility and Sangwoo x Maximum Security Penitentiary For the Criminally Insane. I'll also add that fucked up relationships aren't just contained to yaoi. Yuri and heterosexual relationship stories are also full of problematic pairings ranging from eyebrow-raisers (a guy following the girl he likes "because he wants to know more about her" is STALKING, and groping her breasts is SEXUAL HARASSMENT) to downright disturbing (No, a mother getting sexually involved with her daughter is NOT romantic). And then there's the old "He raped me and now I LOVE him!" trope that many stories - including yaoi - are full of. I don't deny any of this, nor do I glorify it. But it is what is, and clearly there are enough people buying it or they wouldn't still be making it. But trying to kink-shame strangers on the internet for what they consume isn't helpful or kind. Person A complaining about person B being into yaoi when they go home and watch tentacle hentai is hypocritical. (No, I'm not saying that you specifically like tentacle porn, I'm saying different strokes for different folks and there's no need to be overly judgy about it).
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It's hard to believe you when your list says otherwise.
 
DarkLordSatan said:
It's hard to believe you when your list says otherwise.
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Fiction =/ reality. There's a lot of people out there honestly into problematic shit in fiction, doesn't mean they actually want to do that or are into it in real life, that's a massive false equivalency. Fiction is complete fantasy and plenty of people can separate the two. This just crosses over too heavily for me into the whole "video games cause real life violence" argument. Equating real life abuse to fictional abuse is a bit ridiculous and doesn't make any sense.
 
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DarkLordSatan said:
Her list clearly says otherwise, I recognize many series in there that contain rape and favorite characters that are abusive.
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Interesting that you "recognize" things you find problematic. Methinks the pot may be calling the kettle black. I already mentioned in my last post that not everything I read is fluff. Still doesn't mean I find abuse of any kind justifiable or romantic. I am calling bullshit on your statement about my list of favorite characters being filled with abusive people, though. Cats, cute ukes, a baby, some youkai, pacifists, golden oldies from classic anime, animal lovers... yeah, my list is just chock-full of domestic abusers, isn't it?
:laugh:

I have to say you're the first person I've encountered here that has tried to use my site list to negatively judge my character as a person, but I am way too old to feel shamed by randos on the internet who don't like my reading choices. I have little desire to judge others for theirs, the idea of doing that to somebody because they like something I don't is silly. My anime buddy liked both Goblin Slayer and Redo of Healer, two things I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. I've read Killing Stalking and quite a few omegaverse, two things he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. And we don't shame each other. Live and let live, bud. You'll be happier that way.
 
I do not mind clichés. Some series are able to rework them and make an absolute candy out of them. However, there are still some cliché examples that instantly make an anime garbage:
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Seriously, though, I am sick and tired of that ‘Oh, I am sorry. It is not like I wanted to see you naked, uwu.’
 
AnnaSartin said:
I am calling bullshit on your statement about my list of favorite characters being filled with abusive people, though. Cats, cute ukes, a baby, some youkai, pacifists, golden oldies from classic anime, animal lovers... yeah, my list is just chock-full of domestic abusers, isn't it?
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How would you explain Wolfram? He tries to rape Yuuri in the LN and even otherwise behaves obsessively, traps Yuuri in an unwanted engagement and treats him like shit. I was referring to your Yaoi Lovers list btw where you've only mentioned Hitorijime to have any sketchy content.
 
Gens said:
Fiction =/ reality. There's a lot of people out there honestly into problematic shit in fiction, doesn't mean they actually want to do that or are into it in real life, that's a massive false equivalency. Fiction is complete fantasy and plenty of people can separate the two. This just crosses over too heavily for me into the whole "video games cause real life violence" argument. Equating real life abuse to fictional abuse is a bit ridiculous and doesn't make any sense.
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That doesn't explain why fujoshis default to using LGBT as excuse to defend those fucked up things instead of straight up admitting to having kinks/fetishes.
 
DarkLordSatan said:
How would you explain Wolfram? He tries to rape Yuuri in the LN and even otherwise behaves obsessively, traps Yuuri in an unwanted engagement and treats him like shit. I was referring to your Yaoi Lovers list btw where you've only mentioned Hitorijime to have any sketchy content.
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I've never read the light novels so I have no knowledge of a supposed rape scene. Surprising considering the actual anime is a comedy. I will admit he's annoying in the show though, particularly in the beginning. Yuri proposed to him and started the whole mess, and Wolf just couldn't accept that it was a cultural misunderstanding and let it go. What I liked about the character was how he (in my opinion) grew and improved as a person throughout the anime. And when Greta came into their lives he took his role as a second father to her seriously. I'll be avoiding the light novels like the plague now, though, so thanks for the heads up.

As for my Yaoi Lovers list, it contains EVERY shounen-ai and yaoi anime I could find, I haven't seen them all. I made it with the purpose of making it easier for people to know which ones were licensed and which ones were not. Hitorijime My Hero really bugged the crap out of me, though, because the relationships were unhealthy, predatory, and Hitorijime himself really just needed to be kicked in the balls for some of the things he did.
 
I feel like the term fujoshi is just used in an ironic, meme shitpost self-deprecating kind of way these days rather than anything actually derogatory with people who proudly claim they're that. 2chan coined it as an insult originally and since then women reclaimed the term as just being fans of boys love basically. My girlfriend enjoys boys love quite a bit and doesn't really claim or defend in any way, just because it's gay, those toxic relationships would be actually okay in real life. So I don't really get painting people with a broad brush stroke like that. I mean, once again, the whole term started as a misogynistic insult towards women in the first place with animu fans going "HOW DARE THOSE FUJOS RUIN MY ENTERTAINMENT, MAKING EVERYTHING GAY AND SHIPPING STUFF!"


Anyway my two cents.
 
Gens said:
I feel like the term fujoshi is just used in an ironic, meme shitpost self-deprecating kind of way these days rather than anything actually derogatory with people who proudly claim they're that. 2chan coined it as an insult originally and since then women reclaimed the term as just being fans of boys love basically. My girlfriend enjoys boys love quite a bit and doesn't really claim or defend in any way, just because it's gay, those toxic relationships would be actually okay in real life. So I don't really get painting people with a broad brush stroke like that. I mean, once again, the whole term started as a misogynistic insult towards women in the first place with animu fans going "HOW DARE THOSE FUJOS RUIN MY ENTERTAINMENT, MAKING EVERYTHING GAY AND SHIPPING STUFF!"


Anyway my two cents.
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Don't be silly, if you like a piece of fictional material that means you condone and approve of everything and anything that happens in it.
 
DarkLordSatan said:
First try and mention any mlm relationships aside from YOI that isn't fucked up. The entire genre is full of it.
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Somehow I missed this comment, so now I need to share...

My Dearest Cop
I Hear the Sunspot
Dangeum and Jigyo
What Did You Eat Yesterday?
Ookami wo Karu Housoku
Tell Me It's Real
Kekkon Suru Kamo Shirenai Otoko
Koko ni Aru, Kimi no Oto


It sounds like your past experience with this genre might not have been positive, so maybe these will help turn things around. There's tons of sweet BL, those are just a few.
:love:
 
Gens said:
Fiction =/ reality. There's a lot of people out there honestly into problematic shit in fiction, doesn't mean they actually want to do that or are into it in real life, that's a massive false equivalency. Fiction is complete fantasy and plenty of people can separate the two. This just crosses over too heavily for me into the whole "video games cause real life violence" argument. Equating real life abuse to fictional abuse is a bit ridiculous and doesn't make any sense.
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Fiction is indeed formative and normative, but it's usually the subtler, more insidious things that have the effect. The stuff that creeps in when the normal mental guards are lowered.
It's easy to get mad about the almost comical, over the top stuff that gets put front and center.
 
I don't really care what genres people like. Some people like shows with abusive relationhships in it because the show itself might be about the plot and not a romance at all, like a dark story about someone dealing with abuse and learning to have a better future and whatever (i'm not a big fan of that mostly, it's kinda hard for me to watch sometimes). It happens in American television too, not just anime.

As for the BL and about being a fan of that, I'm not a big fan of it personally, but I don't really care if someone else is. I just like well written romance, so I'd read or watch something in that genre if it was good enough. Of course, I kind of prefer a straight relationship show because thats my own personal sexuality, but I would watch a good show no matter how gay it is. I just like good romance.

Regardless of the relationship in the show, straight or gay, BL or not BL, they ALL have toxic relationships of that sexuality. There is just as many toxic gay relationships as there is toxic straight ones in any media. They are pretty equal on that front, and liking either of them does not make you a bad person.
 
I mean honestly I'm queer and like fucked up shit and so do a lot of people. It's not really explained here how anyone is using LGBT to like transgressive media or w.e, but at the end of the day anyone should be able to like whatever fucked up fiction they want. Fucked up romance certainly isn't limited to any category.

Liking BL or GL isn't an indicator of much because people like it in tons of different ways.

I think honestly yeah, BL does get a lot of fucked up content, both in good and bad ways. But GL also has the opposite problem, where it's been commodified to only exist in sweet uwu ways (and there's good and bad there, arguably). Not a simple issue.
 
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