Character Tag Guidelines
- Thread starter cassiesheepgirl
- Start date
- Status
Tyranid5
Member
imaginaryzipper
New Member
Thank you very much for the clarification.
The character in question was Hiroki Kamijou, by the way.
The character in question was Hiroki Kamijou, by the way.
K
kaijo
Possible point of confusion for people here, so I thought this might be a better place to discuss it:
Anime planet's definition of crybaby:
The dictionary definition of crybaby is VERY different than what anime planet uses, which can cause confusion for those who are familiar with the dictionary, but not anime planet's definition. This was my reaction, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The dictionary version is:
1. a person, especially a child, who cries readily for very little reason.
2. a person who complains too much, usually in a whining manner.
Most people understand that "crybaby" is for someone more childish, or who cries for childish reasons. Someone who is just plain emotional, though, who perhaps sheds teads a lot due to tragedy or sad events in their life, would get this tag, even though most people wouldn't think of them as being a crybaby.
Perhaps we could change the tag to "waterworks" or "human faucet" or "emotional." Or perhaps add one of those tags, so there isn't confusion where someone is being labeled a crybaby, even though they have legitimate reasons to be sad, or to cry at happy moments.
Or at least add the dictionary definition to anime-planet's tag definition.
Anime planet's definition of crybaby:
The dictionary definition of crybaby is VERY different than what anime planet uses, which can cause confusion for those who are familiar with the dictionary, but not anime planet's definition. This was my reaction, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The dictionary version is:
1. a person, especially a child, who cries readily for very little reason.
2. a person who complains too much, usually in a whining manner.
Most people understand that "crybaby" is for someone more childish, or who cries for childish reasons. Someone who is just plain emotional, though, who perhaps sheds teads a lot due to tragedy or sad events in their life, would get this tag, even though most people wouldn't think of them as being a crybaby.
Perhaps we could change the tag to "waterworks" or "human faucet" or "emotional." Or perhaps add one of those tags, so there isn't confusion where someone is being labeled a crybaby, even though they have legitimate reasons to be sad, or to cry at happy moments.
Or at least add the dictionary definition to anime-planet's tag definition.
vernanonix
Galvantula Rancher
It's meant to be based on a trope, not a definition. The name is fine. We do ask that people read the tag guidelines as well before making submissions. If we renamed everything to 100% avoid confusion, the Bloodthirsty tags would literally be "Someone eager the shed blood" because some people tend to take it literally.
Either way, it's not been a point of contention until now. And that's been some 3 years since the character DB was launched.
Either way, it's not been a point of contention until now. And that's been some 3 years since the character DB was launched.
K
kaijo
The problem is, when someone clicks on a tag, all they get is a list of people with that tag. And the number of people who do find the anime-planet tag definition in this forum (who even visit this section of the forum) is a small fraction of those who make overall use of the site. To them, they don't know anime-planet's definition.
Tags should reflect the general reality and general definition, so that the average person can more easily identify with what they are looking for. Tags arose from blogs, where a tag was a useful indicator to find what you were looking for in blog entries. I'm sure that someone would find it confusing to search a tag for "Sailor Moon" and find a post that talks about Madoka, simply because someone stated in the blog post that it was a magical girl show that had elements of Sailor Moon.
Be a tad confusing and unhelpful, wouldn't you say?
Bloodthirsty isn't a good analogy, either, since the majority of people would know what it means. Their general understanding is consistent with the dictionary definition, which is:
1. eager to shed blood; murderous: to capture a bloodthirsty criminal.
2. enjoying or encouraging bloodshed or violence, especially as a spectator or clamorous partisan: the bloodthirsty urgings of the fight fans.
3. murderous; cruel
4. taking pleasure in bloodshed or violence
5. describing or depicting killing and violence; gruesome: a bloodthirsty film
So anime-planet's use of it is consistent with the dictionary definition, which is commonly understood by everyone. Literal meaning plays no part in it. There is no confusion. In the case of crybaby, though, the definition that the majority at large understand, is the dictionary definition. What are tags there for? To help the majority of people understand and find something quickly. This seems to be anime-planet's intent, given that you click on a tag and it brings up a list of other things with that tag. And I believe anime-planet would want to help as many people as possible, and thus strive for accuracy in meeting the commonly understood definition that is most widely used.
I have proposed changes that more accurately enhance the tag system. Crybaby has a very specific meaning, and the anime-planet definition lends confusion. It did to me. It doesn't to you, since you are very familiar with anime-planet's definitions. But it might be helpful to step back and see things from the general populace's point of view.
Now, if when someone clicked on those tags, it gave them a description definition of what the tag meant in addition to a list of those with the tag, that might be one idea, too. As it is, the anime-planet tag's are only findable if someone goes out of their way to look for them. How many do you think would do that? Or would they simply presume that the tag means what the definition is, and thus no need to look up what anime-planet says?
And I'd think that, given the submissions that happen every day, there are points of contention on things that have long sat as is. I do not think that length of time should be a sufficiently valid reason to dismiss something out of hand. After all, everyone knew the Earth was flat for a long time, too.
Tags should reflect the general reality and general definition, so that the average person can more easily identify with what they are looking for. Tags arose from blogs, where a tag was a useful indicator to find what you were looking for in blog entries. I'm sure that someone would find it confusing to search a tag for "Sailor Moon" and find a post that talks about Madoka, simply because someone stated in the blog post that it was a magical girl show that had elements of Sailor Moon.
Be a tad confusing and unhelpful, wouldn't you say?
Bloodthirsty isn't a good analogy, either, since the majority of people would know what it means. Their general understanding is consistent with the dictionary definition, which is:
1. eager to shed blood; murderous: to capture a bloodthirsty criminal.
2. enjoying or encouraging bloodshed or violence, especially as a spectator or clamorous partisan: the bloodthirsty urgings of the fight fans.
3. murderous; cruel
4. taking pleasure in bloodshed or violence
5. describing or depicting killing and violence; gruesome: a bloodthirsty film
So anime-planet's use of it is consistent with the dictionary definition, which is commonly understood by everyone. Literal meaning plays no part in it. There is no confusion. In the case of crybaby, though, the definition that the majority at large understand, is the dictionary definition. What are tags there for? To help the majority of people understand and find something quickly. This seems to be anime-planet's intent, given that you click on a tag and it brings up a list of other things with that tag. And I believe anime-planet would want to help as many people as possible, and thus strive for accuracy in meeting the commonly understood definition that is most widely used.
I have proposed changes that more accurately enhance the tag system. Crybaby has a very specific meaning, and the anime-planet definition lends confusion. It did to me. It doesn't to you, since you are very familiar with anime-planet's definitions. But it might be helpful to step back and see things from the general populace's point of view.
Now, if when someone clicked on those tags, it gave them a description definition of what the tag meant in addition to a list of those with the tag, that might be one idea, too. As it is, the anime-planet tag's are only findable if someone goes out of their way to look for them. How many do you think would do that? Or would they simply presume that the tag means what the definition is, and thus no need to look up what anime-planet says?
And I'd think that, given the submissions that happen every day, there are points of contention on things that have long sat as is. I do not think that length of time should be a sufficiently valid reason to dismiss something out of hand. After all, everyone knew the Earth was flat for a long time, too.
K
kaijo
I should add that you bring up a good point with bloodthirsty. You don't go literal. Well, there are people who a lot of people might consider crybabies, even if they don't shed many tears. Someone that throws a temper-tantrum, is very selfish, childish, runs away from fear and pain and hard work. Gets very upset and bratty when things don't go their way.
All the while, they don't shed a single tear.
Many people might consider these types of people to be crybabies. So, are we going to go literal on Bloodthirsty and crybaby? Or are we going with the commonly understood dictionary definitions?
All the while, they don't shed a single tear.
Many people might consider these types of people to be crybabies. So, are we going to go literal on Bloodthirsty and crybaby? Or are we going with the commonly understood dictionary definitions?
lesterf1020
Database Moderator
I would disagree with this. The anime-planet definition is not consistent with the dictionary version you posted. The anime-planet version refers to eager fierce fighters - not people who actually love murder, bloodshed or violence. There are a great many characters in the database that fit the definition you gave but cannot be tagged with bloodthirsty under our tagging system because they are not fierce fighters.
K
kaijo
Actually, that sounds like an argument for bloodthirsty getting slightly modified, then, so as to cover those that aren't fierce fighters, but that love blood and violence nonetheless, ie, those that may torture or enjoying watching blood and gore. Still, anime-planet's definition of bloodthirsty is closer to the dictionary definition as it covers some of the definitions. So an argument can be made for modifying it slightly, too. However, that isn't my current purpose, so we can have that discussion later if need be.
The current debate is that the populace sees the term "crybaby" as one closer to the dictionary definition. Thus, in the current anime-planet definition (which isn't very easily found to someone not modifying a entry, ie, most everyone), people who end up getting wrong impressions of characters, or end up finding (or not finding) characters to whom the dictionary definition would apply. In light of this, a modification for the sake of accuracy would seem be extremely helpful to those who come this site.
The current debate is that the populace sees the term "crybaby" as one closer to the dictionary definition. Thus, in the current anime-planet definition (which isn't very easily found to someone not modifying a entry, ie, most everyone), people who end up getting wrong impressions of characters, or end up finding (or not finding) characters to whom the dictionary definition would apply. In light of this, a modification for the sake of accuracy would seem be extremely helpful to those who come this site.
vernanonix
Galvantula Rancher
If you want to cite dictionary stuff, know that people don't readily go with a dictionary definition for understanding. The readily available understanding of the term crybaby is "one who readily cries with little provocation." More or less anyway. Doesn't have to be a child. Just someone who cries a lot. Or cries easily. Or both. And it was decided that Haruyuki Arita falls under that category.
And just so you know, we've denied many, many, many vampires that people have tried to tag with bloodthirsty, including the non-violent ones. Hence my use as an example. You wouldn't believe the stuff people try to tag characters with...
Anyway, there's no point in changing the name of the tag. It's been established as a tag since the launch of the character database without any sort of conflict in 3 years.
And just so you know, we've denied many, many, many vampires that people have tried to tag with bloodthirsty, including the non-violent ones. Hence my use as an example. You wouldn't believe the stuff people try to tag characters with...
Anyway, there's no point in changing the name of the tag. It's been established as a tag since the launch of the character database without any sort of conflict in 3 years.
K
kaijo
The only reason I cited the dictionary definition, is because that is what most people consider to be one.
And this is isn't a debate about bloodthirsty. Although nowhere in that the official definition does it say that someone is bloodthirsty who loves drinking blood, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. That isn't the official definition, and it isn't what people consider to be. I don't understand how you can be okay with using a more literal version of crybaby, but try to cite bloodthirsty and say you don't use literal interpretations.
Which one do you use? Literal? Or official definition that most people understand?
Because I already said that a lot of might consider someone who doesn't cry. That would be a nonliteral definition, so I don't know why we're talking about wanting literal, and then giving an example of how we like being nonliteral.
And I didn't realize that "been set in stone so long, that we'll never change it now" was a valid argument. I guess nothing else should change now except new stuff, and we should deny all changes from hence forth?
And this is isn't a debate about bloodthirsty. Although nowhere in that the official definition does it say that someone is bloodthirsty who loves drinking blood, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. That isn't the official definition, and it isn't what people consider to be. I don't understand how you can be okay with using a more literal version of crybaby, but try to cite bloodthirsty and say you don't use literal interpretations.
Which one do you use? Literal? Or official definition that most people understand?
Because I already said that a lot of might consider someone who doesn't cry. That would be a nonliteral definition, so I don't know why we're talking about wanting literal, and then giving an example of how we like being nonliteral.
And I didn't realize that "been set in stone so long, that we'll never change it now" was a valid argument. I guess nothing else should change now except new stuff, and we should deny all changes from hence forth?
vernanonix
Galvantula Rancher
My use of the Bloodthirsty tag was a counterargument as to why we can't change everything to 100% avoid confusion. Because people for some reason decided vampires are bloodthirsty because they drink blood. That's the only reason for bringing it up. Go figure.
And it's not that it's been set in stone and can't be changed. It's that we haven't had a problem with the name of the tag in 3 years. The occasion has arisen, iirc, that we've changed a tag's name due to problems with it, but this one is not one of those times.
And honestly, your argument is not making sense. A crybaby does not have to be a child. Even in the definition you provided, the tag guidelines follows it just fine (ignoring the complainer definition). Just because it say "especially a child" does not mean that it has to be a child or childish person. They just have to cry easily or a lot or both.
The name of the tag isn't going to change. The name itself is descriptive of what it implies. If you don't agree with something about the tag, you're free not to acknowledge it. But it's staying what it is.
And it's not that it's been set in stone and can't be changed. It's that we haven't had a problem with the name of the tag in 3 years. The occasion has arisen, iirc, that we've changed a tag's name due to problems with it, but this one is not one of those times.
And honestly, your argument is not making sense. A crybaby does not have to be a child. Even in the definition you provided, the tag guidelines follows it just fine (ignoring the complainer definition). Just because it say "especially a child" does not mean that it has to be a child or childish person. They just have to cry easily or a lot or both.
The name of the tag isn't going to change. The name itself is descriptive of what it implies. If you don't agree with something about the tag, you're free not to acknowledge it. But it's staying what it is.
lesterf1020
Database Moderator
While we appreciate your efforts to revise the tag to something you think is more appropriate, changing the tag or adding a new one with a definition that is quite similar seems more likely to cause confusion than anything else at this point.
Up until now our only issue with this tag has been users tagging anyone they think cries too much with the tag even if it is justified given the characters situation. If your position was more popular then we would be getting lots of crybaby tag removal requests and lots of requests to tag children with crybaby and that just hasn't happened. I just don't think there is a compelling reason to redefine the tag at this stage which would confuse everyone who has been using it thus far. We simply haven't had any major issues with it.
Up until now our only issue with this tag has been users tagging anyone they think cries too much with the tag even if it is justified given the characters situation. If your position was more popular then we would be getting lots of crybaby tag removal requests and lots of requests to tag children with crybaby and that just hasn't happened. I just don't think there is a compelling reason to redefine the tag at this stage which would confuse everyone who has been using it thus far. We simply haven't had any major issues with it.
W
WeekdayWillie
A friend of Kaijo's here. This subject came up in our anime group chat, as a number of us use anime-planet. I'm posting here of my own will, though I will add to the confusion argument. A number of us have noticed inconsistencies and irregular character and series tags over the time we've been using this site. A few of them apparently tried to correct it before, but ran into the wikipedia problem, where those long established on the site resisted any change. If changes rarely, if ever, are taken, then what motivates someone to contribute? Like wikipedia, the vast majority have given up on editing because things are so protected.
I do understand what you guys are saying, but despite the "change is scary" mantra, a change to a more correct version cannot be seen as a bad thing. I think you may be underestimating how many people may be confused by it. Not everyone stops by to let you know, and if people are easily turned away, others will see that and think it not worth their time to contribute. There are a half-dozen or so of us who are confused about tags on anime-planet, including this particular one. Mostly, we just began to ignore them as inaccurate and unhelpful since they didn't match up with what we were seeing. So if you're looking for signs of mass confusion, here it is. I can get more of them to post if that will make a difference (although a couple of them who no longer use anime-planet told us not to bother).
To carry on an earlier analogy kaijo made, at one time people thought the world was flat. It certainly caused confusion when maps had to be changed to be more accurate to what really was, but I think you'll agree the change was overall, a good thing.
If this isn't changed, then what seems to be said is that what is, will stay that way, regardless of how inaccurate we may acknowledge it to be. Right now, our group basically ignores the anime-planet tags because quite a few of them don't tend to match up to what we've seen. Given that is the common perception among our anime group (which numbers in the hundreds, although only a dozen of us meet regularly, and is partly why others don't sign up or come here), I think it is an issue. More people tend to use myanimelist since the more typical tagging helps them find other things they like. People mainly use anime-planet since the GUI makes it easier and quicker to update.
In this particular case, we don't see the anime-planet definition of crybaby to be the one we commonly know. It isn't the only one, but I thought I'd chime in since kaijo mentioned that he was experimenting with seeing how well the mods here consider changes.
Just an opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
I do understand what you guys are saying, but despite the "change is scary" mantra, a change to a more correct version cannot be seen as a bad thing. I think you may be underestimating how many people may be confused by it. Not everyone stops by to let you know, and if people are easily turned away, others will see that and think it not worth their time to contribute. There are a half-dozen or so of us who are confused about tags on anime-planet, including this particular one. Mostly, we just began to ignore them as inaccurate and unhelpful since they didn't match up with what we were seeing. So if you're looking for signs of mass confusion, here it is. I can get more of them to post if that will make a difference (although a couple of them who no longer use anime-planet told us not to bother).
To carry on an earlier analogy kaijo made, at one time people thought the world was flat. It certainly caused confusion when maps had to be changed to be more accurate to what really was, but I think you'll agree the change was overall, a good thing.
If this isn't changed, then what seems to be said is that what is, will stay that way, regardless of how inaccurate we may acknowledge it to be. Right now, our group basically ignores the anime-planet tags because quite a few of them don't tend to match up to what we've seen. Given that is the common perception among our anime group (which numbers in the hundreds, although only a dozen of us meet regularly, and is partly why others don't sign up or come here), I think it is an issue. More people tend to use myanimelist since the more typical tagging helps them find other things they like. People mainly use anime-planet since the GUI makes it easier and quicker to update.
In this particular case, we don't see the anime-planet definition of crybaby to be the one we commonly know. It isn't the only one, but I thought I'd chime in since kaijo mentioned that he was experimenting with seeing how well the mods here consider changes.
Just an opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
vernanonix
Galvantula Rancher
I don't have the time at the moment to fully respond to this, but crybaby refers to a character that cries way too easily. I'm honestly not sure where your confusion is with this.
K
kaijo
I can't entirely speak to Willie about this, but you would seem to have a bit of a disconnect with Lester, then:
I suppose there is some subtle difference between "cry too much" and "cry too easily." The confusion is that most people think of someone as a crybaby, who cries for more selfish and cowardly reasons. The term describes more about a person, than one simple action (cry). That is why the tag is misleading, because anime-planet pretty much uses it as someone who cries a lot... and is surprised when they get a ton of crybaby tags for people who cry a lot?
But is is, ironically, this exact argument I made with my Haru thread. Yes, he cries... but 90% of them were justified, ie, a girl just sacrificed herself for him, might not live, and then relief when he comes back. Or when someone he cares about is about to be taken away. Or when it looks like they will lose, and they will lose everything, and thus make someone he cares about sad. Or when the person he loves is laying on the ground, not responding while they were in a dangerous situation.
Not to mention that he has mental trauma (a theme which plays promiently into the very fabric of the story), so we might as well call everyone with a mental trauma a crybaby. Parents divorcing over him, which he witnessed them arguing as a young kid, which led to him overeating and blanking it out of his conscious mind. Which led to years of bullying, and seeing his two closest friends grow together and away from him. Hell, Chiyu sheds tears almost as much as Haru, and doesn't have the tag. You only see it more from Haru because he is in the spotlight more.
And someone in those situations isn't justified? Sure, you can find maybe one or two times he sheds a few tears where it normally wouldn't be warranted (while not taking into account his mental trauma)... but they are the vast minority, even in the anime.
So the overall argument isn't against whether someone cries, but what reason it is for. This seems to be a difference even between people talking about this. One will say it is because he cries a lot. Another will say that they turn down submissions of people crying a lot. And you wonder where the confusion is from?
Other examples: I notice Pedro from Excel Saga isn't tagged with it (but Soun Tendo from Ranma 1/2 is), but he would seem to fit the bill of someone who cries easily. They make reference to his twin waterfalls of tears often enough. Pedro is more of a crybaby than Haru is, if we're going with someone who cries easily at every little thing. Soun can be prone to waterworks, but it is one of those things that is overblown in the fandom, like Kasumi saying "ara/oh my" all the time. It happens, but not that often. More often in the anime, than in the manga (then again, the anime turns the characters is more caricatures than actual people).
If I concede enough to say that there might be confusion either way, at least going with the standard dictionary definition would leave a solid foundation to address things with.
Anyway, I've offered several ways to help correct misunderstandings (which, if you are getting a lot of crybaby tags that you reject, that would indicate that, yes, the anime-planet definition isn't what a lot of people think of). Namely:
1. Remove the tag
2. Add tags like "waterworks" or "emotional" to differentiate the different states. Someone can be emotional without being a crybaby. Someone can shed tears without being a crybaby.
3. Add the definition to the page when people click a tag, so they get a definition as well as a list, and aren't confused about how anime-planet tags things.
Not to mention, there is still a broken tag link. If you really want to cut down on tag issues, it might be a good idea to fix that. Namely, when you go to edit a character, you have the helpful "How to Add or Edit Characters" link in the character edit screen. On that thread it goes to, there is a link in the "Tags" section that leads to a "Page Not Found." It should probably be fixed to point to this thread.
vernanonix
Galvantula Rancher
We had a problem with the forum a couple months back so that probably broke that link. I'll poke sothis about it. She's the only one with editing power in this forum, being the admin.
Now, if you want to throw examples of people who are crybabies at us who aren't marked, that isn't justifiable reason for why Haru shouldn't be marked as such. There's plenty of characters scattered throughout the database where some tags that can apply to them haven't been added. It's either the mod who added the character forgot to add it or didn't know the character well enough to add it. (This is, of course, assuming the tag applies.) In a lot of cases, someone will run through the first few episodes or chapters of an anime/manga to preliminary get characters added so as to not have an empty page there.
And again, we're not changing the tag name. I'm aware of the "justifiable crying" clause. It's why I didn't add the tag to Yuuki is Mirai Nikki. Because any and every time he cried, someone was being murdered, tortured, etc. Except for maybe one comedic moment anyway. I don't know Accel World past the anime, so it's on Zaig whether or not he feels the change is needed. (He's in charge of the series, iirc.) But I feel like I recall Haru crying over more than just tragic events on a few other occasions. But it has been a while. Your beef is with Zaig there, though. (Sorry for thorwing you under the bus, Zaig.)
Also, Waterworks would be a terrible name for the tag, btw. It's not descriptive enough. And Emotional does not just imply someone prone to crying. That could also go into anger, over joyous, etc. Emotional doesn't say near as much about a character's personality as Hot-Headed and Crybaby do.
Now, if you want to throw examples of people who are crybabies at us who aren't marked, that isn't justifiable reason for why Haru shouldn't be marked as such. There's plenty of characters scattered throughout the database where some tags that can apply to them haven't been added. It's either the mod who added the character forgot to add it or didn't know the character well enough to add it. (This is, of course, assuming the tag applies.) In a lot of cases, someone will run through the first few episodes or chapters of an anime/manga to preliminary get characters added so as to not have an empty page there.
And again, we're not changing the tag name. I'm aware of the "justifiable crying" clause. It's why I didn't add the tag to Yuuki is Mirai Nikki. Because any and every time he cried, someone was being murdered, tortured, etc. Except for maybe one comedic moment anyway. I don't know Accel World past the anime, so it's on Zaig whether or not he feels the change is needed. (He's in charge of the series, iirc.) But I feel like I recall Haru crying over more than just tragic events on a few other occasions. But it has been a while. Your beef is with Zaig there, though. (Sorry for thorwing you under the bus, Zaig.)
Also, Waterworks would be a terrible name for the tag, btw. It's not descriptive enough. And Emotional does not just imply someone prone to crying. That could also go into anger, over joyous, etc. Emotional doesn't say near as much about a character's personality as Hot-Headed and Crybaby do.
W
WeekdayWillie
I think part of kaijo's issue is that crybaby implies a negative connotation. It's basically saying someone is acting infantile for their age, ie, they are acting like a crying baby.
Having just recently watched Accel World myself, I found that tag confusing once kaijo pointed it out to me. Haru's crying isn't like being a baby at all, which is where the term came from. Kaijo is pretty accurate there, that Haru's crying is 90% justified. He only really cry cries maybe 3 times, although teardrops appear in his eyes more often (but don't run down his face). It's more of a sign that he is becoming emotional.
So I think it might be resolved by picking a tag name that has less negative association. Maybe "twin waterfalls" as most anime fans recognize what that means. "Emotional" doesn't seem too bad. After all, if I tell you someone is getting emotional, or that someone gets emotional a lot, what does that mean? I think it's understood by all.
Crybaby also doesn't say whether the person is angry, joyous, upset, etc., either, so it's on the same level as emotional.
Anyway, regardless of whether it is changed or not, at least we all recognize that there are confusion issues and that it is inaccurate. That's all I wanted to add, since this tag is far from the only one that has brought confusion in our anime group. Our group has generally been split, since we use myanimelist for tags and recommendations. We always said that it would be great to have a single site with the GUI entry of anime-planet, but the accuracy of myanimelist (where it's a chore to enter what you've watched).
Having just recently watched Accel World myself, I found that tag confusing once kaijo pointed it out to me. Haru's crying isn't like being a baby at all, which is where the term came from. Kaijo is pretty accurate there, that Haru's crying is 90% justified. He only really cry cries maybe 3 times, although teardrops appear in his eyes more often (but don't run down his face). It's more of a sign that he is becoming emotional.
So I think it might be resolved by picking a tag name that has less negative association. Maybe "twin waterfalls" as most anime fans recognize what that means. "Emotional" doesn't seem too bad. After all, if I tell you someone is getting emotional, or that someone gets emotional a lot, what does that mean? I think it's understood by all.
Crybaby also doesn't say whether the person is angry, joyous, upset, etc., either, so it's on the same level as emotional.
Anyway, regardless of whether it is changed or not, at least we all recognize that there are confusion issues and that it is inaccurate. That's all I wanted to add, since this tag is far from the only one that has brought confusion in our anime group. Our group has generally been split, since we use myanimelist for tags and recommendations. We always said that it would be great to have a single site with the GUI entry of anime-planet, but the accuracy of myanimelist (where it's a chore to enter what you've watched).
first off i'm really surprised that myanimelist is actually being suggested here as a replacement for anime-planet's recommendations. tag issues or not, AP's sole reason for being created 13 years ago was as the first and only recommendation database. MAL was created and added recs I think around 2007, i created AP in 2001. our recs are moderated for quality and there's 13 years' worth, so it's unfortunate that the group is using MAL instead for accurate (???) recs isntead of AP
i also keep seeing this repeated:
can you please let me know what the giant group of tags is that are considered to be unhelpful or confusing? it sounds like a blanket statement that all the tags are bad - this is surprising to me given the extreme care/effort that went into making all of the character tags. sometimes the names are chosen based on what people actually search for, based on a lot of keyword research (by yours truly), or common terms that people always use when searching/looking for chars, even if the definition isn't exactly as everyone would think it is. i don't remember why 'crybaby' was used, just explaining how the names are chosen. also, we often look at what other character databases (and there aren't many) use for naming, and often we try to align with them if it's a well known term. based on that same research, 'twin waterfalls' is DOA:
https://www.google.com/search?q=twin+waterfalls+anime+characters <---zero results
https://www.google.com/search?q=crybaby+anime+characters <--way more results, including from the few other character 'database' sites
while we cater to people on AP, our goal is also to bring in new users who are looking, in this case, for character information. it doesn't help anyone to use an obscure name, rather than one that people actively search for or identify with the trope
also, as i'm still confused on why MAL keeps getting brought up, as it has zero character tags, zero character attributes (hair color, etc) that can be searched, etc. we have a vast array of tags with very clear guidelines (and we do alter the guidelines somewhat frequently based on discussions, edge cases, etc). if the idea is that our character tags are worse than a site that has zero tags and zero ways to search for characters except name, i don't really understand the argument.
now, if the 'tags are confusing' lines are based on our anime/manga entries, there's a (admittedly somewhat stalled) effort to get the same quality of guidelines written for anime/manga tags and to get a trained group of moderators ready to go tag titles they can confirm. totally fair to say other sites are superior in that regard (which i'd agree with given the current no-guidelines-written-and-often-blank-tags situation on AP), but i'm not sure how that applies to this character tag argument, given the site being mentioned has zero
as to the broken link, that's indeed related to the recent forum woes. for what it's worth anyone is able to open up a bug here: https://www.anime-planet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43 as it definitely could have been fixed a long time ago had i known about it. i'm open a site bug to fix it tonight
i also keep seeing this repeated:
can you please let me know what the giant group of tags is that are considered to be unhelpful or confusing? it sounds like a blanket statement that all the tags are bad - this is surprising to me given the extreme care/effort that went into making all of the character tags. sometimes the names are chosen based on what people actually search for, based on a lot of keyword research (by yours truly), or common terms that people always use when searching/looking for chars, even if the definition isn't exactly as everyone would think it is. i don't remember why 'crybaby' was used, just explaining how the names are chosen. also, we often look at what other character databases (and there aren't many) use for naming, and often we try to align with them if it's a well known term. based on that same research, 'twin waterfalls' is DOA:
https://www.google.com/search?q=twin+waterfalls+anime+characters <---zero results
https://www.google.com/search?q=crybaby+anime+characters <--way more results, including from the few other character 'database' sites
while we cater to people on AP, our goal is also to bring in new users who are looking, in this case, for character information. it doesn't help anyone to use an obscure name, rather than one that people actively search for or identify with the trope
also, as i'm still confused on why MAL keeps getting brought up, as it has zero character tags, zero character attributes (hair color, etc) that can be searched, etc. we have a vast array of tags with very clear guidelines (and we do alter the guidelines somewhat frequently based on discussions, edge cases, etc). if the idea is that our character tags are worse than a site that has zero tags and zero ways to search for characters except name, i don't really understand the argument.
now, if the 'tags are confusing' lines are based on our anime/manga entries, there's a (admittedly somewhat stalled) effort to get the same quality of guidelines written for anime/manga tags and to get a trained group of moderators ready to go tag titles they can confirm. totally fair to say other sites are superior in that regard (which i'd agree with given the current no-guidelines-written-and-often-blank-tags situation on AP), but i'm not sure how that applies to this character tag argument, given the site being mentioned has zero
as to the broken link, that's indeed related to the recent forum woes. for what it's worth anyone is able to open up a bug here: https://www.anime-planet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=43 as it definitely could have been fixed a long time ago had i known about it. i'm open a site bug to fix it tonight
also for more apologetic and non-intentional-throwing-under-the-bus shenanigans, i'll say that while vern's opinion is strong, he doesnt speak unilaterally for all of the mods, so i don't think the discussion is as final/closed as he's making it out to be ;) we as a group would need to have a discussion in the mod section to come to that conclusion before potentially shooting it down here. we definitely are open to changing tag definitions, and sometimes the names, depending on a variety of factors. generally, the names we choose are for very calculated and concise reasons, so it's a little tougher to get those changed
- Status