Proposed 'explicit content' type tags - round 2

[wolfangel87]

I think that it is a really good idea to warn people about the content. I think that the idea you have now with the tags would work splendidly!

[VivisQueen]

I kinda object to shounen-ai/shoujo-ai being under Explicit Content parent tag when they blatantly are not.

More suitable under 'Mature Themes'. Just because it's homosexuality, doesn't mean it's explicit. You even make that distinction yourself, but still propose to put it alongside other tags like gore, explicit sex etc. :/

[Menchi]

Yes, and in most of shounen/shoujo-ai anime I've watched (and same for manga) there's only been kissing and hugging and that sort of 'mild' stuff, so I'd like it under the Mature Themes-tag as well.

And the idea about the warning signs sounds good, cause kiddies could get into trouble if they even accidentally click open something not-suitable for them, and their parents would think this is not the right site for them...

[cassiesheepgirl]

I think that the reason it's under explicit is more because it's a child of Yaoi, so then anyone who clicks on yaoi will also see the shounen-ai tags. I agree that shounen-ai isn't explicit, and the definition of the tag also explains that shounen-ai is male/male relationships with little to no sexual content.

[VivisQueen]

Originally Posted by cassiesheepgirl

I think that the reason it's under explicit is more because it's a child of Yaoi, so then anyone who clicks on yaoi will also see the shounen-ai tags. I agree that shounen-ai isn't explicit, and the definition of the tag also explains that shounen-ai is male/male relationships with little to no sexual content.

Shounen-ai isn't meaningfully related to yaoi. It'd be like saying romance is a child of porn: so anyone who wants to see male-female relationships can click on porn and then by default also find romance.

[sothis]

as PC as you want to make it, shounen ai is seen as yaoi without sex - that's just how it is. as i mentioned above i understand putting a genre under explicit is a bit unorthodox, but it would be under yaoi/yuri because they are children topics.

i mean, let's look at this realistically: if i'm looking up yaoi, theres a very, very good chance i'm looking for shounen ai too (especially with english meanings where the two terms are merged). many, many people consider 'yaoi' to be the blanket term that defines male/male anything, sex or not.

the one thing i could potentially do is make an exception for showing all children tags under the parent tags - what i mean is:

if i look at the yaoi tag page, ill see shounen ai titles as well (because i dont think anyone can possibly argue they dont fit well together)

if i look at explicit content, it will show yaoi/yuri and the sub tag nudity, but can exclude shounen ai / shoujo ai because they admittedly are not explicit.

[sothis]

if that logic applies, that works for me... id just need a list of which ones qualify as hentai so i know what to look for when i add them (or i cuold potentially post a sticky thread of sources we wont post manga from)

[babbo]

Originally Posted by Zakiel

It should more or less apply. You can always make exceptions. I guess the technical term for "hentai magazine" is Seijin (for adult men) magazines. There's also Redikomi, which is "for adult women", but it doesn't list any magazines. There are also lists for Yaoi and Yuri magazines on the site, but I don't know how explicit the magazines are.

Here's a list of Seijin magazines

I'm not sure if all of the publishers of Seijin manga exclusively publish Seijin manga. If so, it could listed by publisher as well, because MU lists the the publisher far more often than the magazine serialized in.

Well if it's scanslated (and I'm assuming that the majority of the people here don't know japanese and posting stuff they've read online or bought) the scanslator will prolly be a good indicator as well. Most groups tend to stay in particular genres. If they did only translate a handful of hentai manga it was prolly a spurr of the moment thing or related to series they've done (ex Musashi Quality translating a spice and wolf dojin). Saha is one that comes up alot on MU for instance.

As for the shounen/shojou ai, doesn't it sorta defeat the purpose of using them if it's under the explicit umbrella? Might as well put seinen and josei under there while we're at it. Why not just use the Yaoi/yuri tags seperately and put an explicit tag next to it if that content merits one o,o?

[sothis]

so i do want to be clear that i dont consider shounen ai/shoujo ai or yaoi/yuri to be something bad or explicit by default - i simply figured that since yaoi/yuri by western definitions have heavy sex, that it would work as a subset of explicit (since 'sexual content' is also a subset)

but i can understand if people would prefer to have all genres separate. i had just hoped to avoid having to put explicit content for basically any title marked yaoi/yuri (since by western definition ie how we'll describe them, yaoi/yuri would mean heavy sexual content versus the more minimal 'sexual content')

so if people are very opposed to it being under the explicit bucket (for ease of use), please say so and ill do it this way instead:

Explicit Content
---Sexual Content
---Nudity

Yaoi
---Shounen-ai

Yuri
---Shoujo-ai

The Y/Y definitions in the first post are a bit misleading - I assumed that yaoi/yuri would only be tagged if the sexual content is 'heavy' meaning explicit. People can correct me if I'm wrong but based on the western definitions, I think that's a fair way of breaking it down between shounen/shoujo-ai (none to minor sexual content) versus yaoi/yuri (moderate to explicit). For this reason, for the most part I'd anticipate that most titles tagged yaoi or yuri would by default get 'explicit content', unless the submitter says there's just a moderate level (but again, base don my understanding,this wouldnt happen much?)

If explicit content is used, subtags dont need to be used (ie, sexual content and nudity). If explicit content is not used, sexual content or nudity would be used as needed.

sound good?

[lagore]

Originally Posted by sothis

This was discussed in a previous incarnation but now cassiesheepgirl and I have come up with an alternate proposal that we think will fit for anime/manga content on the site.

Here's the initial discussion thread

Cassie and I have been laboriously debating how to structure the variety of adult tags other sites use to describe manga/anime and which to keep/discard. Other sites use adult/mature/smut/ecchi/hentai, and many variations of the topic (ie, large breasts, etc)

We have a tenative solution that I'm opening to the community for discussion. Remain neutral and open, please.

Parent tags
First, it's important to understand parent tag are and how they will work for V3. Please read this thread for all the details - the important points are that if you go to a parent tag page, it will show series with its children tags too. Children tag pages will have a link to the parent tag pages as well. Both a child and a parent tag are not used together - one or the other. I have no desire to respond over and over to people suggesting things the parent tags topic already addresses, so please ensure you're entirely clear on what parent tags will do in V3.

Issues we're trying to tag:
1. Sexual content (minor / major)
2. Nudity
3. 'Adult' themes (suicide, drugs, rape, etc)
4. Explicit violence (including gore)

Current tags we use:
1. Mature Themes
2. Ecchi
3. Shounen-ai/Shoujo-ai (we don't use yaoi/yuri at the moment)
4. Explicit Sex
5. Explicit Violence
6. Gore
7. Panty Shots

Proposed Solution: (children tags indented from parent tags)

Explicit Content (replaces explicit sex, explicit violence, gore)
------Yaoi
-------------Shounen-ai

------Yuri
-------------Shoujo-ai

------Sexual Content
-------------Nudity

Mature Themes

Ecchi
------Panty Shots


How the proposed tags would be defined: (rough wording - subject to change). Please remember to read the parent tags section above before you respond.

Explicit Content:
May contain explicit sexual content, explicit violence or gore, or nudity

Yaoi:
Contains male/male relationships with moderate to heavy sexual content

Shounen-ai: (we'd use the English equivalents here, even though in JP BL=yaoi period)
Contains male/male relationships with little to no sexual content

Yuri/Shoujo-ai (same as yaoi/SA but for the ladies)

Sexual Content:
Mild sexual content. Could contain implied sex but without the explicit details.

Nudity:
Mild to moderate nudity. **like with all tags, only manga/anime with decent amounts of nudity would warrant this tag. One scene or shot would not warrant the tag.

Mature Themes:
Topics that are suitable for adults, including things such as rape, suicide, and drugs.

Ecchi:
Literally translated as 'perverted', this genre covers everything from panty shots and accidental gropes to sexual acts without high level of detail. In movie rating terms, ecchi can range from a PG-13 to R rated movie.

Panty Shots: (dont think i need to spell this out here)

First, I know it's unorthodox to put genres under what's essentially a content warning tag, but given yaoi/yuri revolve around sex they seem appropriate there, and shounen/shoujo ai being (at least to the english speaking world) sub tags, it makes sense to have them in this structure. This way, people looking up yaoi will clearly see shounen ai tags, etc.

Second, this does mean that we'll start to allow certain anime titles labeled yaoi in the database. I currently still have no plans to allow flat out hentai (manga or anime - and babbo, I don't want to hear it, so keep the 'sothis is a prude' to yourself), that may change in the distant distant future. Thus, if a manga or anime is yaoi/yuri but is basically hentai (divisible by context - this will be really difficult to judge, but i think the general rule is if there's no plot and the point is sex, it's hentai), it will not be added.

Well, let me start off by saying that I'm desperately sorry to say that I didn't read everything in the previous thread or this one, but I think I can still add something to the discussion.

EDIT: DAMMIT! See, see! I Because I came here late I missed a bunch od stuff. Dang it! Well... just disregard anything I wrote that's outdated by now.


Alright, so firstly, I think that this is a good idea. Maybe we can put a little box in the entry's corner with the pertinent information.

Secondly, I think that we should include hentai in our list, and therefor in our datadase (with proper warnings, or course). We already have entries like Kite and Mezzo Forte, and I think there are probably some other anime that are genuinely good, even if they have explicit sexual material. And even if they aren't, there is no requirement that all our entries be "good" shows.

Thirdly, I think that "panty-shots" is far too specific. It would be like having a category just for using the word "fuck" instead of all curse words. I propose using either "ecchi" or "mild sexual content."

Fourthly, I also think we should have a tag for verbal cursing. I know this would be kind of hard to enforce, what with the differences between fansubs, various official subs, and dubs. However, I think we should at least discuss this issue.

Fifthly, I think that "gore" and "explicit violence" are functionally the same thing.

Sixthly, I don NOT think that yuri and yaoi should be lumped together as sexual content. That would be like saying that any story with a heterosexual love story obviously involves sex. I'll admit that I don't know much about these genres, but I think that we would end up condemning some shows that have no sexual content whatsoever.

Finally, I think that if we use these tags/warning we absolutely NEED to have a page that definitely them. I don't think a parent would know what the heck "ecchi" means, and I think "adult themes" can be interpreted as having dozens of different meanings.

Okay! I think that's everything. Thanks for reading.