Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Spiral Labyrinth

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[sadht=Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu: Rasen Meikyuu]Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Spiral Labyrinth[/sadht][sadhl=1631]legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-spiral-labyrinth[/sadhl][sadhdc][/sadhdc]

Just preparing the thread for the Buddy Group starting tomorrow!


I can't wait to see more of Yang Wen-li after so long, even if it's with an unfamiliar, inferior voice.
 
Episode 1:

The hero of El Facil is born! And I am so glad he has the old voice actor back. In Gaiden he has some ridiculously unsuitable gravel voice - it was jarring and distracting. But here, we have the smooth tones of the true Yang. :D

Despite losing his father, Yang remains so calm and just takes everything on the chin. He's not passive exactly, just seemingly someone who can resign themselves to things they can't control while also putting up a good struggle when there needs to be a one. I enjoy his key tick, which is to scratch his head. Reinhard's is to toss his hair or play with his forelock, and Reinhard also grimaces a lot. But Yang scratches his head and appears perpetually befuddled while basically being the single most genius strategic in the known universe. Bless him.
I bloody cheered when he used Lynch as a decoy. I was like 'Bloody well done' because that stupid Captain or whatever was happy to abandon his own people. Urgh. Amazing to think the entire Alliance is packed to the brim with these kinds of idiots.

Finally, I am a little unnerved to see Frederica Greenhill show up so early on. I really hope her role is a cameo, because I don't remember her being a significant feature of Yang's life until the events of the main series. The person I am, however, really looking forward to seeing again is Jessica Edwards. Yang and his friend were supposed to be in love with her when they were young, right? I am not sure how big a feature she will be, or whether she'll show all the gumption she had of the main series, but she's seriously someone I have missed so hard.

Anyway, onto the second ep...

Episode 2:

Oooooh! They're going for a similar approach in Gaiden. Give the main characters a mystery to solve and watch the rest evolve from there. I like it. Really looking forward to seeing how the investigation goes from next week.
Also was that Jessica Edwards in those soft focus shots??? You know when his blond friend says to him on the intercome that all 'three' of them should meet up again? I think he meant Jessica there. That got me a little excited. And nice with the introduction of Minci without really showing him.

Apart from that, this was a strangely weak episode for a LOTGH work. There was a lot of awesome dialogue that characterised Yang but little forward momentum of the plot. The final scene where he gets the assignment began to drag at some point.

Finally, I'm loving this recurring joke about Yang leaving the military. Everytime he considers the possibility, someone gives him sound reasons why that's impossible. It's like, Yang, just give it up. Your balls are firmly in the vice-like grip of this organisation. Hilarious.
 
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01

That was a welcome extension on Yang's backstory and enrollment in the military. I remember the main series throwing in some bits and pieces about this along the way, but with far less context.

I can't decide whether to admire Yang's father's heroicism or not. He risked and lost his life to save the ship from that reactor's overheating, but in doing so he thoughtlessly left his son with a glaring debt and no choice to freely pursue the line of work he wanted to dedicate his life to. But even at a relatively young age, Yang is quick on accepting the situation and looking for a way out by himself. So while I have mixed feelings about his father, our protagonist at least is certainly praiseworthy.

That Wideborn was quite the lousy militar genius if you ask me. Yang cut his supply line and he kept on in the offensive without being wary of a shortage? Meh! Still, the point they're trying to make here is that Yang always had a knack for tactics even before appreciating them, and given his deeds in the main series I can easily buy it. Also, that simulation program seemed kinda fun for a strategy game!

Ahh, it's just like Yang to apply the foolishness of others to his strategies - not just his enemies' but also his superiors'. I also cheered when he took advantage of Lynch's flee to evacuate the civilians himself in the opposite direction. That captain wasn't going to listen to whatever advice he could have provided, anyway, so he just let him do his thing and make the best of an otherwise dire situation. Aces!

Even so, his plan was still a risky bet: there were bound to be some Imperial ships left behind that could detect them (like the one which actually did) and their escaping entirely relied on the people in charge mistakingly deducing that it wasn't something worth chasing. If any of Reinhard's outstanding, level-headed subordinates had been in command there instead of Mr. Asteroids, things wouldn't have gone so well. But still, taking risks is also another part of war tactics and that might have been the course of action with the best chances to avoid capture.

Overall a pretty solid reintroduction to Yang's character and LotGH's space skirmishes. I'm looking forward to more~

VivisQueen said:
The hero of El Facil is born! And I am so glad he has the old voice actor back. In Gaiden he has some ridiculously unsuitable gravel voice - it was jarring and distracting. But here, we have the smooth tones of the true Yang. :D

Actually, Kei Tomiyama died in 1995 - so he couldn't have participated in this Gaiden - but they really did pick a much better substitute for him than the one before (to the point I had to listen to several of his lines to decide it wasn't the same man).

VivisQueen said:
Finally, I am a little unnerved to see Frederica Greenhill show up so early on. I really hope her role is a cameo, because I don't remember her being a significant feature of Yang's life until the events of the main series. The person I am, however, really looking forward to seeing again is Jessica Edwards. Yang and his friend were supposed to be in love with her when they were young, right? I am not sure how big a feature she will be, or whether she'll show all the gumption she had of the main series, but she's seriously someone I have missed so hard.

I don't remember her being important in young Yang's experience either, so yeah, probably just a quirky cameo. On the other hand, Jessica will probably have a bigger role at some point for the reason you just mentioned. If I had to choose one between the two characters I'd go with Jessica, so that's nice - although I appreciated Frederica too.
 
Also, that simulation program seemed kinda fun for a strategy game!


You might appreciate this old BBC show called Time Commanders, then. Teams of nerds have to battle it out using real CGI simulations of ancient battles. They develop their strategies and have to execute commands while it plays out in real time on screens. In the ultimate nerd twist, there are real military experts giving overexcited commentary. I geeked out so hard to this once.


Actually, Kei Tomiyama died in 1995 - so he couldn't have participated in this Gaiden - but they really did pick a much better substitute for him than the one before (to the point I had to listen to several of his lines to decide it wasn't the same man).

Holy crap, he sure fooled me! Amazing. Well, I like his voice way, way more.
 
^ Haha, oh that program sure looks like fun. I might check it out one of these summer days.

02:

Yang Superstar!

Agh, this whole segment of Yang thinking about the future makes me sad. It is kind of funny how he was wrong in many important aspects (like never finding anyone who'd want to marry his lazy, self-deprecating ass), but that in turn makes it even sadder when considering the end result. =(

I didn't find #2 weak per se, although somewhat slow-paced even by bridge-episode standards and, perhaps, a tad recurrent: we've never directly seen this stage of Yang's rise as the national, unwilling hero, but it's easy to draw a parallel between the treatment he's receiving now and what he got after his first encounter with Reinhard in the main series. The promotions, the cheers, the cameras, the pushy media... It's a bit more of the same, and we already know how Yang reacts passively and unflattered to all this stuff.

Still, there's some nice bits here and there, like when his superior is telling him how privileged he should feel about his current position without having really experienced hardship himself, or his relative conveniently and friendly approaching his nephew now that he's a hero instead of a penniless orphan.

I remember how I was also a fan of Cazellne and his interactions with Yang. It's like Yang doesn't have any secrets for him and he's aware of it, so that allows them to have rather casual, sincere conversations. Although Yang is straightforward he wouldn't admit so openly to just anyone how fed up he is of the military and the role they force upon him, and similarly not just anyone would happily accept that stance and persuade him with Yang's best interests in mind.

This new investigation is truly rather insignificant from a practical viewpoint for the Alliance: rumors be rumors, and the morale of the soldiers doesn't really depend on the integrity of a sole heroic figure of the past. Their actually considering to dedicate human resources to tasks like these (right now just Yang, but there's talk about possibly summoning a formal committee) gives away that there's a lot of manpower being paid without much to do.

However, I'm sure that for Yang this new side mission will reveal something important that will help give more shape to his political views and personality.

And yes, Lapp was most likely talking about Jessica when he said ''the three of us''. From what I can remember they were already a rather stable couple at this point, so Yang might feel a bit bitter about a reunion.

--
Also, I think I just realized who this new voice actor for Yang is: the one who did Keaton! I'll have to confirm it, but particularly when he was explaining to Cazellne his gripes with Wideborn and whatnot, he totally sounded like Keaton explaining history or geeking over some newly found piece of ancient culture.

EDIT: Nah, probably a wrong guess after all. But hell, do they not sound alike at parts.
 
On Yang's voice. This is very, very confusing. The guy is called Hozumi Goda, and he voiced Yang in both Gaiden and Spiral Labyrinth. Which means, this is the same gravel-voice guy. But he sounds totally different! He must have changed up his style. Maybe fans complained?

He is also Chirico from Votoms, which is just damn sexy. Apart from that he's done nothing that I would care about.
 
Golden Wings in general feels really weird because there's very little about it that feels 'in-continuity' with the rest of the anime, like an unrelated adaption of one of the LOGH works - and that's why Yang is so bad in that. It's really the only LOGH title I'm not that keen about.

Spiral Labyrinth though? Well it might not have Kei Tomiyama wryly going 'Yare, yare' but it does feel to me like Miracle Yang himself, and essentially the opportunity to chill out with a younger Yang for a season makes it well worth the watch.

Some good plots in there too, and then when you're done you feel sad there's no more LOGH (seriously, internet, when am I getting a proper translation of the Tanaka novels?)

...and Time Commanders, that brings back memories.
 
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...and Time Commanders, that brings back memories.

In the episode I link above (which I am watching now as I clean my kitchen), one of the boys in the family says he wants to be a military historian when he grows up. He's a mini-Yang!
 
Episodes 3-4:

This was a lot of history, and what I find so intriguing is that LOTGH can deliver a lot of exposition without ever actually getting boring. Is it in the nature of the narration, maybe? Like a grandfather telling you amazing stories about his exploits. You still just want to know what's coming next.

I think Ashbey acts as a kind of alternative foil to Yang.
He was a womaniser (who didn't really respect his partners). He was better at tactics than strategy. He was charismatic and handsome. He had an aggressive attitude. In comparison, Yang is useless with women but respectful towards them. He will be good at tactics AND strategy by the events of the series. He has no charisma and isn't handsome. He's thoughtful and calm. I just get the sense that Yang might be drawing lessons about himself from this. By the way, do you think we'll end up discovering a big conspiracy once Yang digs deep enough? Maybe something to make him even more cynical about his homeland.

Beyond that, there was only one tangential observation I wanted to make about race (I've rambled before about gender when I was watching the series, I think). It is still a very caucasian Alliance, which surprises me. I think it was seeing Tschewling that hammered that home for me. Also, that black general who has his cameo in episode 2 and whose name I always forget. However, for a civilisation that supposedly encompasses all people from Earth, you'd actually expect white people to be in the minority. Assuming centuries of mixed pairings, white people (as well as strictly black or strictly Asian) would be as rare as ginger-haired people today.

I am guessing by Yang's name, that his origins are Oriental generally, maybe Chinese specifically? But the cast broadly is so very, very, very white. Like 95% white. I'm like, did Africans all die out and fail to pass on their genes, surnames, and culture? I think this episode was the first time I've found a specific reference to an 'Asian' (South Asian). But correct me if I'm wrong.

LOTGH is rooted in the experiences and knowledge, and therefore also biases, of Tanaka and those who animated the series. So I'm not sure I'm making any argument as such - just voicing an observation. When anime is set in Japan or some fantasy land devised by Japanese people, I'm a lot more forgiving of a lack of diversity. Japan is relatively homogenous; a fantasy setting is often just a mirror to the home of the creator. But when someone claims to be depicting a world that encompasses all Earth populations now or in the future (esp. if they're democratic), I find the lack of people who look like me really jarring.
 
03-04:

VivisQueen said:
This was a lot of history, and what I find so intriguing is that LOTGH can deliver a lot of exposition without ever actually getting boring. Is it in the nature of the narration, maybe? Like a grandfather telling you amazing stories about his exploits. You still just want to know what's coming next.

This might be a weird thing to say, but I actually found the history-focused episodes (those where Julian Mintz would just sit before a monitor for hours and watch docummentaries on how migration from Earth and space collonization began) some of the most interesting, gripping episodes of the whole main series.

In any grand story I really appreciate and take great interest in finding out about the people who made the present-time setting came to be and how, even if pace restrictions necessarily make said people feel more like just charismatic figures than actual characters. Like, when I'm reading Game of Thrones, I always look forward to more details on Aegon the Conqueror and his epic battles, and how he single-handedly took over the land and made the Targaryen the hegemonical family for many generations. Or tales about Raeghar Targaryen, or the past Kings in the North.

This is even truer for LotGH because there is a lot more delving into politic disparities and the consequent coups d'état, citizen rebellions, etcetera, which makes its history far more intrincate and compelling to learn about.

And even when the narrative takes a more personal note, like in these episodes in the form of Rosas' memories, they manage to give you enough bits and pieces on the people involved (Jasper's hilarious jinx, Baretti's contrasts in and outside the battlefield...) and insight on their relationships so that I actually care about what really happened to them all, and particularly to Ashbey. So I'm really enjoying Rosas' conversation with Yang in that regard and I'm glad he'll keep on talking in the next episode - this time focusing on a great battle, to boot.


---
I think it's a mistake not to consider Ashbey's first wife an important part of this investigation. Being a strong-willed person and a close friend to all the members of the '730 Year Mafia' is enough of an incentive to look up info on her, but Ashbey's reaction to her claims just before she left in that flashback might be an indication that there might be something else between them that we aren't seeing just yet. Considering Ashbey's personality and his respect (or lack thereof) towards his wife, that lowered head and stern face didn't seem to me like he was regretting falling out with her, but rather... oh well, I guess we'll just wait and see.

His second wife's death, Lucinda, is also suspicious. That ''accidental death by overdose'' piece of information makes me think that someone wanted her out of the way (or she opted out herself) of whatever conspiracy was/is definitely going on behind the scenes. She died years after Ashbey, so it's pretty safe to think that there's something major happening even after his death, and his being murdered was, rather than the end result, the means for something else.

Right now there's really not a lot of information to go by, so it's pretty pointless to try and construct any theories beyond those vague conspiracy notions. But if I'm not mistaken, this one is a long arc (until ep. 14), so this is bound to evolve into something big that will affect Yang's views on the system and himself. Most if not all the characters presented so far might have a role to play on it, and I'm not sure to what extent we can trust Mr. Rosas.


So yeah, color me interested for sure on whatever's waiting ahead.


---
As for your point about race mixtures in LotGH, I'd agree that the population - and not just the selected cast - is too predominantly white for what logic tells us it should look like. There are some black and asiatic characters here and there, but you'd think this society would look more obviously mixed and equivalent after centuries of coexistence and mating.
 
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I think it's a mistake not to consider Ashbey's first wife an important part of this investigation. Being a strong-willed person and a close friend to all the members of the '730 Year Mafia' is enough of an incentive to look up info on her, but Ashbey's reaction to her claims just before she left in that flashback might be an indication that there might be something else between them that we aren't seeing just yet. Considering Ashbey's personality and his respect (or lack thereof) towards his wife, that lowered head and stern face didn't seem to me like he was regretting falling out with her, but rather... oh well, I guess we'll just wait and see.

His second wife's death, Lucinda, is also suspicious. That ''accidental death by overdose'' piece of information makes me think that someone wanted her out of the way (or she opted out herself) of whatever conspiracy was/is definitely going on behind the scenes. She died years after Ashbey, so it's pretty safe to think that there's something major happening even after his death, and his being murdered was, rather than the end result, the means for something else.

I have one bit of speculation and it's based on absolutely nothing.
I think Rosas' granddaughter sent the letter. Just the way she was introduced, with Yang being sort of startled made me think we're meant to remember her. And so I immediately tried to think of a role she could play, and though what if...?

I sometimes just like picking a character at random and seeing if my guess of them being the murderer or other sort of mysterious person comes true. Heh.

I also was highly intrigued by the first ex-wife's comment. She was so confident he'd return to her (and I kind of dug how cocky she was about it). And yet, nobody so far has said yet if Ashbey ever did. I was surprised that Rosas said they lost touch. Apparently she was a good friend of the 730 Mafia, and yet, despite spending all those years recording the history of his comrades, he never bothered to find out what happened to her? :/ Nah. Something odd here. By the way, another thing I thought odd was that Cazellnu didn't tell Yang about the signature on the letter. Even if it seems 'preposterous' that the long-dead ex-wife wrote it, surely that's still some kind of clue? And then how he hesitated when Yang asked about it. Odd things afoot.

In any case, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks there's going to be a massive fall-out from this supposedly innocent investigation.

PS. The Jessica thing was dealt with disappointingly fast. Like, here's a flashback to explain everything. Although I don't think Jessica and the blonde guy (sorry, names escape me, this series REALLY should go back to having names flash on the screen) are yet married, so maybe Yang will still spend some time pining, I just get the sense it's always going to be a background issue rather than a significant part of his development. Bah.
 
On the subject of LOGH and race:

It was some time after the establishment of Rudolf von Goldenbaum's explicitly white supremacist empire that Arle Heinessen led the Exodus Fleet. It's possible that the racial balance shifted drastically during that period via genocide, it's certainly notable there's essentially no non-white people living on the Galactic end of space.

But yeah, that's mostly just my attempt to explain a really bizarre level of Caucasians in the FPA (particularly given the enormous influence of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and other Chinese epics had on Tanaka, which is why I think he made Yang Chinese to begin with.)
 
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On the subject of LOGH and race:

It was some time after the establishment of Rudolf von Goldenbaum's explicitly white supremacist empire that Arle Heinessen led the Exodus Fleet. It's possible that the racial balance shifted drastically during that period via genocide, it's certainly notable there's essentially no non-white people living on the Galactic end of space.

But yeah, that's mostly just my attempt to explain a really bizarre level of Caucasians in the FPA (particularly given the enormous influence of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and other Chinese epics had on Tanaka, which is why I think he made Yang Chinese to begin with.)

A lot of historical evidence and conjecture:

Okay, so reading the wiki on this. Heh. Rudolph von Goldenbaum's ascension is basically that of Hitler. It seems Rudolph was a white supremacist to the extent that he only allowed people of Germanic descent to attain nobility status and rule. When we look at his Inferior Genes Exclusion Act, however, it is described as follows: "At its heart, the IGE Act was a policy of forced sterilization directed at people deemed to be abnormal or inferior. This included the poor and the handicapped. People considered to be mentally ill were summarily executed." There is no mention, as far as I can see of non-whites being targeted for mass-murder.

We can reasonably assume that the Empire had its roots in our Earth, with its usual racial make-up. Considering that by the time its precursor, the democratic Galactic Federation, was established 8 centuries from now (year 2801), the vast majority of humans in the system would be non-white, all pretty much mingling on equal terms. To be honest, by that logic, it'd be surprising that Rudolph would be a pure caucasian, or that he would conceive of politics along racial lines (for racial lines to be political, they have to correspond - or at least seem to correspond - in a significant way with socio-economic status, because otherwise you can't mobilise people along such lines, and thus race becomes useless as a political tool). This would be highly unlikely in a galaxy full of mixed people.

Furthermore, even if non-whites were targeted by the IGE, the genocide killed off only 1.3% of the population. This still means the vast majority of the Galactic Empire should still be non-white. (The low number alone suggests non-whites were not a target, because no way did they only make up 1.3%). In fact, it'd be surprising to find enough people who could claim direct descent from Germanic roots by the time of the Galactic Empire in order to rule 25 billion people, that even Rudolph's own policy does not make sense.

So anyway, even if Rudolph (somewhat startlingly) grew up a racist, he didn't kill off all or even most of the non-whites. He merely stopped them from gaining top positions. You could assume that many of them would have lived as serfs and thus a massive portion (easily the majority) of people that escaped with Arle Heinessen in the Great Exodus should have been non-white.

So these things combined, I am now surprised at the lack of ethnic 'majorities' on both sides, not just the FPA. Perhaps I previously did not question this lack on the side of the Galactic Empire because I always knew it was modelled on Prussia (certainly, I'm not surprised that the powerful people in the GE are all white). But given the historical evidence, it really doesn't make sense, and I'll just put the racial make-up down to Tanaka's own biases.
 
Rudolf and his plans are fantastically unlikely. He's essentially a plot device to justify making the Galactic Empire as anachronistic as it is. There really is no way to give a good explanation for the Galactic Empire, so he serves as an explanation.

But I always took genocide and enforced racial sterilization as a given in the Empire - one can say that the preponderance of white characters shows Tanaka's biases, but he's conscious enough of race to have non-white characters... they're just all on the Free Planets Alliance side, exclusively (for example, the FPA's founder is Nguyen Kim Hua), which I think is meant to tell us something about the nature of Rudolph's sterilizations.
 
Rudolf and his plans are fantastically unlikely. He's essentially a plot device to justify making the Galactic Empire as anachronistic as it is. There really is no way to give a good explanation for the Galactic Empire, so he serves as an explanation.

But I always took genocide and enforced racial sterilization as a given in the Empire - one can say that the preponderance of white characters shows Tanaka's biases, but he's conscious enough of race to have non-white characters... they're just all on the Free Planets Alliance side, exclusively (for example, the FPA's founder is Nguyen Kim Hua), which I think is meant to tell us something about the nature of Rudolph's sterilizations.

Your first paragraph I agree with. Rudolf is a plot device so that we can have a white Germanic Empire to draw parallels to our own history. The second paragraph just tells me race was more a convenient afterthought - Tanaka didn't follow through logically with the logic of his world-building because he'd basically have to portray a world where the amount of mixing that would have happened would actually have made the concept of 'race' practically obsolete. (How the hell do you talk about race in an empire of 25 billion people who are racially mixed from centuries of inter-marriage?)

Even if the policy of racial purity practically doesn't make sense, it's frustrating that he still leaves it implied (as you say, he goes as far as showing non-whites only on the side of the FPA), when it would also have been easy enough to just put it in as part of the description of the IGE Act that non-whites should be eliminated and sterilised and/or killed off alongside the disabled and poor.

Eh. *shrug*

EDIT: You know, at the least, you'd have Yang notice and philosophise about how his race would have made him inferior or even dead if he'd been a member of the Empire. That's definitely something Yang would comment on.
 
I suppose most broadly Yoshiki Tanaka's problem is that instead of using science fiction to engage with the question of how future societies will develop, he treats it as a kind of fantasy setting where he can make up his own Germanic-themed empire (and the FPA I guess most closely resembles then contemporary - that is, late 1970s - America, with Trunicht perhaps being Tanaka's take on Nixon), which leaves a lot of stuff about race, gender and potentially shifting social order essentially unexamined, a kind of massive blind spot in a series that can otherwise be so incredibly perceptive.

Tl;dr he's nowhere near Ursula Le Guin.
 
^ Hahaha! Your final line truly made me laugh. And your observation is basically a really nice summary upon which to conclude.
 
Episode 5:

There was a random black guy in the background! Hurrah!

Also
Ashbey's plan. The way the narrator was questioning whether he was loved by the Goddess of Time or... I thought 'Okay, so the guy must have had privileged access to Empire information or something.' Could he have been a traitor in reality? Then again, that wouldn't make so much sense considering how he seemed to not too subtly hint at a political career. Did he manipulate his friends and risk their lives so he could have a flashy victory and thereby improve his chances in politics?
Anyway, on with the next episode.


Episode 6:

Aaargh! This mystery is now driving me crazy. :frustrat:

Okay, is it too obvious to think now that maybe Rosas betrayed Ashbey? And being the last one to survive and tell the tale to further the mystery essentially completes his duty towards his nation? He gave them a hero, but he also protected them from the hero's potential for military dictatorship? Is it too obvious?

And I wonder what the granddaughter meant with Ashbey having stolen Rosas' accomplishments? Was that plan Rosas' in some way? Goddamnit what's going on???
 
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