Starship Operators

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Starship Operators

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Just released it. I think its pretty good. Ep 1 starts of a tad bit slow but gets better fast. Ep 2 seems like its going to be good too. I think the series is 12 eps long.
 
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This seems like a nice show and all, I'm a fan of capital ship battles after all, but there are a couple of things that I don't like.

1. The female uniforms are horrid.
2. They all are a bunch of idiots or be it brave fools.

Nobody in their right mind is happy to go to war. What will they accomplice? Nothing, they will just get killed. It's not like an enemy will forgive your transgressions after you run out of ammo and give up. Giving a live feed to the enemy? Are they crazy? The only reason they won the first encounter was because of their one-hit-kill weapon.

I'm just wondering how the crew will react when people start dieing.
 
Aydan said:
This seems like a nice show and all, I'm a fan of capital ship battles after all

[offtopic]You need to get your hands on a copy of Nexus: Jupiter Incident. That game is nothing but the capital ship combat with beautiful DX9 level graphics.[/offtopic]
 
I think it's ok, but I can't see how 1 ship will be able to do anything... But I'll keep watching and maybe they will do something with even a hint of realism..
 
is this more like sakura wars/virgin fleet, or more like stellvia? or hoshi no koe?

someone give me a good recommendation so i know if i want to watch this or not ;)
 
The nearest anime series I can relate this series to is Sekai no Senki (Crest of the Stars) but even that is a bit of the stretch. So now, I'll try to go into a little more detail on the story. There are some spoilers, but all confined within the first episode and I'll try to be as vague as possible.

Just before their training cruise is to end, a group of space cadets discover their homeworld has capitulated to an expansionist regime and has agreed to disarm. And so, they decide to take the ship and fight the regime. These idealistic cadets come up with an idea on how to gain the support they need, and the series is basically a chronicle of their various incidents.
So, while this series has the space opera feel of "Sekai no Senki", the contrast between the idealism of the students and the grim realities of war gives this a different feel. Not as heartbreaking as "Hoshi no Koe" or as fun as "Sakura Taisen"; closest I've heard was "Now and Then, Here and There", but as I have not actually watched that series, I cannot accurately compare. The series I liken it to most are sci-fi novels (my precious Honor Harrington novels by David Weber), where people actually die and die on a regular basis. (Oh yes... those people who think it is like Gundam SEED are fools... FOOLS I TELL YOU!)

--Deidryt

PS: Feel free to yell at me if I gave away too much.
 
I've written a review-summary of eps 1 and 2 here.

I'd say try watching the first two eps, then you'll know if it's for you or not. I like it!
 
Aydan said:
Nobody in their right mind is happy to go to war. What will they accomplice? Nothing, they will just get killed.
You don't seem to be up on your history or human relations. Plenty of people are willing to go to war, especially they're already in the military (which these kids were) and believe they have something to fight for.

What they're doing is called guerilla warfare. Happens enough that there's a term for it.
 
I'm sorry but no. I won't call what they are doing guerilla warfare.
They don't strike and retreat. This is the main principal on which guerilla warfare is based on. Strike and retreat if your goals are accomplished or strike and scatter when a mission fails. Further more guerilla warfare is not practiced on the open seas. The open sea has to stand in for the fastness of space in this case. You can't practice guerilla warfare on the open seas or in the fastness of space because there is nowhere to hide/run when the shit hits the fan. When you engage and enemy you'll usually have to fight it out to the bitter end. Or you'll be hunted down if the enemy gets your sent. If they still had the backing of some sort of government power they would be what is called privateers. They would then be under direct orders and have a clear mission, sink any enemy ship that you come across. And in the old days take all their money. :)

And as for their motives. Well they are over zealous youth's, whose motives are noble in a sense, but whose actions will not deliver anything useful for their home planet. The people they are fighting for. If you fight without a clear rational goal, you are a fool in my book. Well if they manage to liberate their home planet with their current resources, I'll pipe a different tune, but this anime will have lost all its realism if that happens. If a planet folds, how can one of their ships, a escort no less, make that big of a difference. Sure it's great pr if nothing else.

Anybody who looks forward to war is either not in their right state of mind or has never experienced it. This last bit does not really apply to this series because their home planet can't actually be held accountable for the actions of the crew. Well the occupying force should just take the families of the crew hostage, problem solved on their end. But hey that wouldn't be fun would it. It would be rather boring no.

All this is based on episode 1 and my opinion may change as the series progresses.
 
first many people through history have fought with enthusiasm. Nationalism is the main reason i see they are doing so in this series.

In history, two examples come to mind about cadets, first is the Mexican-American War, the Niños Héroes at the Battle of Chapultepec, which at the point was obvious the Mexicans had lost the war, yet they fought and died.

American civil war, Virginia Military Institute Cadet Corps at the Battle of New Market.

The rebellion/resistance generally never starts with a full armada or fully equiped army. It starts with a select few standing up fighting and more people join the cause. then liberate their planet once they have the means to do so.

By placing limitations of what you think guerilla warfare is, then it loses some of the essance of what guerilla warfare is. Not all guerilla warfare is strike and retreat either.

It is merely striking with small units/forces against an enemy's regular forces through ambush and surprise generally.

I bring attention to the Tet Offensive by the Vietcong.

It can happen today on the seas and even in space. You just have to be more careful. Such as where to attack and where you can fall back to, ie a smaller ship will go over a reef where pursuers may not be able to go, or in space use astoroid belts to get away, two examples of many that could occur. Don't pick fights with an enemy ship of equal power.

if their actions of these cadets in this series are worthless, then the dutch, french, and many other nations resistance groups were a waste of time and never should have been formed in the first place after their respective home nations surrendered.

romans loved war, made them rich. enthusiasm for war depends on what they get out of it and why they go to war. Since we are dealing with humans, who love to destroy it is only natural that some will enjoy it. while it is misery to fight, many are enthusiastic .

The series holds promise, most likely it will prove to be disapointing, but will have to watch and find out.
 
Hold up, those people in reality had clear goals. The resistance groups in history could fight and disappear into anonymity (those of Europe) that is what made the resistance possible, something the cast of this anime can't. Resistance on land is something far different then on sea or space. The reason the cadets had in this anime was to
get revenge and fight until they had no ammo
that is no a clear/long-lasting goal.

In their case they are only one unit and that is why I won't call what they are doing guerilla warfare. The hit and run tactic is the only guerilla tactic open to such a small unit and they can't hit and run as far as I know. I'm sure they can run if some superior power comes along their way, but they won't be able to engage it and then run when things go bad, something a guerilla unit can do.

Macabre said:
By placing limitations of what you think guerilla warfare is, then it loses some of the essance of what guerilla warfare is. Not all guerilla warfare is strike and retreat either. It is merely striking with small units/forces against an enemy's regular forces through ambush and surprise generally. I bring attention to the Tet Offensive by the Vietcong.
This is not relevant for this situation. I was not explaining what guerilla warfare is, but rather the main tactic that they can't use in this anime. As far as I have seen that is.

Macabre said:
romans loved war, made them rich. enthusiasm for war depends on what they get out of it and why they go to war. Since we are dealing with humans, who love to destroy it is only natural that some will enjoy it.
I'm sorry but I don't think that was true for the man that actually had to fight the war. Sure the leaders of Rome loved it, they didn't have to fight. If the footman love it so much why did the Romans have such a great disciplinary system? Doesn't that seem a bit unnecessary if they love it so much?

Macabre said:
while it is misery to fight, many are enthusiastic.
So people are enthusiastic for misery?

I'm sure the crew will turn around and become heros in the end. Don't they always. At least the lead wasn't all too enthusiastic to go to war. Hmm, I wonder why she is the lead.

edit: ps
Well I don't know much about American history but it would seem like the Cadet Corps of the Virginia Military Institute where under proper leadership. A major of the army. They are unlike the cadets in this anime.

And as for the the Niños Héroes at the Battle of Chapultepec, they stayed even after the order for retreat and they where killed. Brave but foolish.
 
i can't believe no one has given the perfect example of people with an idiotic goal, willing and happy to go to war as combat troops.

well, actually there's 2 that come to mind.

a: the SS. a LOT of the "foot troops" were plenty happy to go to war simply for the sole purpose of cleanign the world of "mud people" or whatever term you would like to use.

b: the hitler youth. they were NOT under the command of an orthodox military chain of command, yet ran around berlin trying to stop both a simultaneous american and russian invasion, and if they had any logic left in their ltitle brains left at all, they would have ralized a pistol in the hands of a kid(or anyone for that matter) isn't going to do much vs a tank, yet they were happy to fight for hitler. as far as having been brainwashed, i think most of that is a bunch of bs. sure, they were blatantly lied to, but it's a matter of how they grew up. just the same as most people today hold a completely different set of beliefs(thank god) solely because of how they were raised. i mean hell, who's to say that we haven't been brainwashed into not thinking ethnic cleansing is a good thing?(not implying that i think it is, so dont even go there)

and yes, there have been and currently are PLENTY of people happy and willing to go into combat in recent and present armed forces from around the world, for whatever reason. hell, do you think most american military units were sad about blowing up random middle easterners right after 9/11? i dont think so. oh wait, lets see what they were doing, taking out their anger in an attempt at revenge for what happened(not trying to turn this into a political discussion eitherm, just stating a fact to prove my point here), it just so happens that they had a virtually unlimited supply of ammo.
 
In war people die, lots of the friends you get to know in your training days might not make it until the end, the death of such a friend might strengthen your resolve but it doesn't make you happy. I can't imagine someone with a smile on their face as they are pinned down by machinegun fire. It's not like I'm saying people are afraid to go to war, most people will fight for what they believe is right. It is not that I care if someone kills a enemy, I care more about that someone losing a friend. And only history can tell if they actually accomplish something.

I'd just like to add to what prisoner said.
People fight willingly and happily for idiotic goals, this is true, but in the end they don't accomplish anything substantial. These people are brave fools.

As for the anime: I'm just wondering how the crew will react when people start dieing.
I get to see this in ep 2 if i'm not mistaken
 
revenge and the will to fight for their country after it capitualted is a clear goal, what do you think motivated people to join resistance groups? because they wanted revenge against occupiers and be free of the occupiers.

many japanese soldiers fought well after the Japanese government surrendered. The prime example is the group of 3 in the philippines who didn't surrender until 29 years after the end of the war.

Confederate forces in the USA fought on after the government collapsed.

French forces continued to fight after france fell to the germans, same with polish, and many other countries.

guerilla warfare is unconventional fighting.

It could be from a bomb exploding in public market to a raid on a military installation. the reason you don't see it occuring on sea is that, ships have to be maintaned and are expensive,and have to have a trained crew. it is far cheaper to hand someone a gun 5 bullets and tell them to hide in the jungle/hills.

if they are going to do attacks in space, they have to probally resort to merchant ships, and other isolated units.

i only talked about guerilla warfare because someone else brought it up. It is not really guerilla warfare because in the fight in the first episode it was rather stand up, formal way of doing things.

I think they are more just refusing to accept the fact they have no support base and wish to continue to fight, which they are trained to do in part for idealism and in part because they want to.

rome had iron discipline to win wars and not get buthered in fighting. they loved war because they loved the fruits of victory. part of the plunder went to the soldiers.

yes, people love to go to war for the right cause.

an example, merely to be able to relate to many people.
If you ever played a sport, say soccer or basketball, you don't smile while you are playing it, you usually gritting your teeth and tired as hell, put days upon days of hell in training, yet when it is over you loved every minute of it, the rush of it, the feel of it, and especially when you gain victory...

Same is true for combat for some people, some love it, others never want to do it again.

I agree, i look forward to see how it is played out. Once they realize it is not a game and it is reality.

goals and ideas are all relative. you might think idiotic goals are fighting when there is no hope, i might think it is idiotic idea to fight for freedom of speech and democracy, equality of mankind etc etc..
 
In all your examples about resistance groups the groups themselves didn't actual accomplish anything, how noble their fight may have been, they where just great pains in the ass for the occupying force. They needed help from a outside force to overcome their oppressors and reach their goal, which was liberation. This doesn't apply to the anime, it's not like they can step out of their starship when it runs out of fuel/ammo.

And in all the other examples about people loving war, you only look at the end result, you only look at the feelings of people after the war, when it has already ended. When they are no longer at war. War: a state of armed conflict. People don't like to live in a battlefield. I'm not taking about before, or after, but during wars. People are willing to go to war to defend their believes etc, they aren't happy about it. They would rather there be no war. There is a big difference between happy and willing. I don't see the USA going to war with The Nederland's just for the hell of it, just for fun. If people LOVE war why is it always the last resort? If people are so HAPPY about war why isn't there a world war going on as we speak. In my book there is a clear difference between the willingness to war and just being happy to go to war because they love it.

Well I'm not going to debate my opinion about the crew being idiots or brave fools anymore. I see that it will just become an endless cycle. It's my opinion at this moment in time, if you don't like it that's your problem.
 
If you look at the world, majority of people live in poverty, struggling to feed and clothe themselves. In many countries, there are no free jobs for young people at all. Not that they are lazy (like it's often pictured in American culture that jobless=lazy) but because there simply aren't any. Such young people would absolutely LOVE to go to war - soldiering provides clothing, food, shelter and women. Not to mention the feeling of power and belonging. Granted that's something you'll never understand unless you've actually visited one of the 3rd world countries and been beyond the tourist areas, and the feeling of sheer belonging to a large group that is so damn awesome about the army is something that you have to experience to understand as well.
Hence there are a LOT of people in the world that would love nothing more then fight. In Africa, in many places fighting is an easy way to secure food and women for a rapefest, which are frighteningly common, and if you look at sothiern America, it's not all that different either. Additionally we have strong hatred bourn by belief in your own righteusness (extreme religious fanatics, be they christian, buddhist, muslim or of any other religion).

War is the most natural way for humans to do what they are genetically designed to do - competing for survival and propagating their own genome in the next generation. As sick as that may sound to someone from the "industrial world", that is the cold and harsh reality of the world.
 
Oh so why don't we all get up and start killing each other it's the natural thing to do right? Oh please. I grew up in South Amerika, I'm from a 3de world country and I have to strongly disagree with your claims. I'm sorry but no, it might be in mans nature to fight, but in the more successful modern societies that nature has been restrained. Sure it's a power trip for people to belong to a bigger group, but I wonder how that power would feel if they where on a battlefield, people dieing left and right. It would sound like those less fortunate people only joined the army to stay alive, they didn't go there because they like to fight. And if they fight it is to get what they want, not just to kill people left and right because it's fun, because they love armed conflict (war). A love to go to war and a love for war (actually fighting) are 2 different things my friend.

I suggest you guys that think people love war go down to your local veterans hospital and talk to the people there, it will really open your eyes. But hey the new generation often doesn't learn form past mistakes.

And further more, the love for war argument I made was for the crew in this anime. People who aren't actually poor and have to fight for food.

Such young people would absolutely LOVE to go to war - soldiering provides clothing, food, shelter and women.
Yes they want the clothing and food, but if they had it they won't go to war. It is just their way to survive. You make it sound like people love to kill other people and they also love to see their friends getting killed. Well that's what war is. Killing your enemy and losing your friends. As I said before, anybody who looks forward to war is either not in their right state of mind or has never experienced it.
 
To answer your questions directly:
Why we don't kill eachother - strict society control and punishment. It is scientifically proven that if a person is absolved of responsibility, over 95% of human population is fully capable of killing a fellow human being, even if that human is begging them in tears not to. Vast majority of the rest will stop VERY short of killing.

Why the major industrialized countries haven't gone to war with eachother - MAD. If you don't know that is, it stands for "Mutual Annihilation Doctrine". If you still have no clue, google it.

And as for the rest of the world - the current historical record for maintaining the longest peace in known history is in Roman hands - approximately 200 years of peace in their golden age. They achieved that becase their army was notorious for both its power and its extreme cruelty - in other words it exterted the same "control via fear of consequence" as the one I discussed above.
Western countries are constantly involved in the armed conflicts, from non-ending Israel vs Arab world, to bigger wars like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Iraq, and minor and far away (and usually more bloody percentage-wise) post colonial wars all over Africa and Asia. Just because you don't see thousands of raped teen girls on TV, or thousands of poor teen boys claming revenge over the bodies of their sisters doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Lastly, you would do good to note that the world "sort of" has a terrorism problem. I can assure you that only few of those, inspite of what Bush's administration loves to claim, are religious fanatics. Majority of these, as even a short research would show you, are kids from the enviroments that I talked about in my previous post. People like that don't have values that you are talking about - they live in "kill and enjoy life or be killed by the other kids competing for the same rights to rape and pillage" - world. Your post shows that you have as much understanding of that world as they have of yours. And there's at least as much of people like that as there are people in industrialized world, and probably more due to the fact that people in those countries breed like rabbits while industrialized nations' birth numbers are stalling.

All your assumtions so far are based on the fact that YOUR values are EVERYONE'S values. I honestly thought that most people, at least in Europe, would at least learn from the Bush's crusades that this is not so. Apparently I was wrong.

EDIT: and as for well-off people, they aren't all that better off. While they are indeed restricted by the society, should you read some things that you hear from the direction of the goold old USA, you'll notice that most people were all for Iraq war before and during the beginnig. Only when the hurt started to be laid on their side as well did they start questioning if it was right to invade another country. Superiority/inferiority complex and the need to show off is very powerful in western cultures and can cause just as much bloodshed. Also, you'll note that Yugoslavia wasn't all that poor either. We had ethnical tensions there however, and with Tito dead, it all started to slow head for the collapse that we had in the end.

And as for the particular form of warfare used here, this is a typical "we don't kill people, we fight a war" attitude that most combat pilots get. To them, killing is so impersonal, they often don't see themseves as killers, rather looking at themselves as some sort of warriors fighting "the enemy". And since all the enemy that they get to see is either an enemy plane, or enemy vehicles on a small grainy screen, they never get to experience the "knee-deep in blood" feeling.

Lastly, read up on Afghan conflict (the one in 70s, USSR vs CIA & mojahedeen fighters). Specifically at the accounts of veterans - I personally knew several. They range from insane gyus who spend the rest of their days in a hospital asking kids they killed for forgiveness (usually an assault helicopter's pilot/gunner) to stone cold killer types that can wring a neck of a kid of throwing a ball at their window (usually paratroopers and special forces). But average afghan war veterans are quite normal people with just slight psycological shifts due to traumas. And those are people that were effectively pulling the same shit as americans did in Vietnam, only with the difference that they were even more sexually "creative" as most russians tend to be.
 
they have a sponser, who gives them money to fight, basically, the tv network.

sounds like you are a strict pacifist. Since even in your country it is illegal to hurt a criminal who is trying to hurt you, technically. Since you believe in the fundamental rights of every person to be treated well.

The resistance groups gave hope, and hope is something that is beyond measurement of accomplishment.

Basically you also saying by your logic any armed resistance to any oppresive government is a waste of time and pointless. Even if that government tortures, kills, rapes parts of its own population.

to assume that any government cannot turn into an oppressive organization is logic that will create such government. Once you loose the will to fight, others will and gladly take advantage of that fact. Many times it is not about winning, it is all about just fighting.

If war so was bad and everyone hates war, then why does holland have a military?

As to why more countries dont' go to war? and it is a last resort. war is very very expensive, especially if you lose, and in today's world many have to think about their neighbors stances as well and trade. War use to be a nice way to get money by enslaving and plundering a country. Now technically it is illegal to go to war for any reason by intl. laws, even when the UN sanctions it. Then you get countries like the USA who say you should not go to war, or else, we will either cripple your little pathetic country economically or just blow it up. of course that is only if that country benefits the USA. France does the same in west africa.

Democracies are especially weak when it comes to any bloodshed, they are the worst type of government to have for a war, the longer it is the worse.

Most people do not enjoy war, there are some who do. Some people like to fight. IN the begining many people, mainly the young and inexperianced enjoy and are pumped up to go to war. as it drags on they get tired of it. However, not everyone hates war, it is the same as saying everyone loves war, it is not true. But to exclude the other is just putting a blind fold on and hoping nobody hits you or steals your wallet.

edit:
Aydan: using some of your logic.

Deleted the end of the post as very flammatory and personally insulting. No need to get personal, really, this is just an anime and everyone is entitled to their points of view, even if they are against yours. So no more "heh heh, poke poke you suck" stuff please
-Lucky
 
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