Revolutionary Girl Utena

valondar

Active Member
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Alt title: Shoujo Kakumei Utena

Synopsis, Screenshots, Reviews, Recommendations ~ Add Your Own Recommendations

Discuss individual episodes and first impressions of this anime here. Full reviews should be posted here. Forum rules and post guidelines can be found here.

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Kind of surprised there isn't a thread already. Well, here's one! I mainly started this for the forthcoming anime buddy viewing of this series, but naturally people can wander in and reminisce about how much they love the show or whatever.

As I intimated there, I wasn't at all impressed by this series, but that was just three episodes. Maybe it gets better. Maybe it remains bad. Who knows?

And so will soon begin a roundtable discussion of gender identity, revolutionary... something, plus pretentious imagery and other weighty, lofty concerns like you'll find in young girl's cartoons with fluffy bright pink colours and cutesy mascots.

We'll be watching two episodes a week with a discussion here on Thursday, unless that's considered too much or too little by anyone who wants to join.
 
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Utena is a pretty good anime imo. It has a really ritualistic feel, where each episode certain things (such as a duel at the end of the episode) almost always happen. If you watch this over a longer period of time, it feels really comfortable to see those scenes each time. There are some really filler like middle episodes, but by the end, the story really comes together.

Good luck with the buddy group, hope everyone enjoys it as much as I did.
 
Episode 1:
I liked this more than the first time I saw it. I think I can partly attribute this to two reasons: First, symbolism. I spent most of my time pausing, repeating bits and making notes. Everything’s more fun when you’re analysing it. I’ll concede there are some interesting words and symbols thrown around, but so far it’s nothing a lot of other shows have done better.

Second, lowered expectations - when I first went into this show I was expecting something far weirder or, heck, more entertaining. That might seem a little unreasonable to expect for a show aimed at this age and gender, but I loved Tweeny Witches from the get go. By the by I don’t watch much shojo so you’ll probably see me compare this series to Tweeny Witches as my sole frame of reference. If you haven’t seen it, it’s very good and worth a look.

My point being: It is perhaps unfair for me to find the school interactions boring (which I still did) or dislike the visual style (which I still do) because of the audience this genre is aimed at, but for me Tweeny Witches transcended those concerns. Even taking my biases aside, however, the rather limp attempts at humour here just plain aren’t funny. At least they don’t seem irritating at all upon a second viewing.

Still, when you have a director who’s stated he’d like to work with David Lynch and whose impetus to get into animation was the gloriously disturbed Kanashimi no Belladonna, you just don’t expect something so comparatively trite and dull. A first episode of anything should grab the viewer while this leaves me, at best, indifferent, and perhaps far worse. Not every series in this genre is Tweeny Witches – but at least they should all be animated by Studio 4C!

I think I had a point there and then I lost it...

Episode 2:
That stupid Chu-Chu mascot exists solely to piss me off and is emblematic of the very tenuous grasp on humour so far. I think they were going for Pen-Pen with this character but they wound up with Pikachu. The more entertaining scenes tended to be those where people sat around spouting arcane nonsense to give me ample fodder for further pointless analysis, whenever the show tries to do something else it’s tiresome at best.

A strong point: Characterisation of Anthy. She’s completely totally submissive to you, but only if you hold the whip hand per the rules of this rosy rulebook. It’s a very dedicated kind of submissiveness that perhaps should not be mistaken for cowardice.

And having now watched episode 2 one might get a sense of that ‘ritualism’ Lyzl referred to above, and why I preferred to set this series at two episodes a week rather than any faster speed. A lot of stuff got repeated here and at the same time – the puppet show, the Absolute Destiny Apocalypse song, the duel (and its strange images). Frankly I just approached this as formula when I first saw it – like in a Gundam series where, never fear, the robots will do battle at the end of the episode.

Upon further reconsideration... yeah, this is still formula. Ritualised formula, but it’s still just magical girl transformation scenes and duelling given a moderately weird twist.

Fun fact: That ‘Absolute Destiny Apocalypse’ song was done by the same fellow who did the music for Midori. Score two points for my gratuitous mentions of highly disturbing surreal anime!

Bottom line: So far, unimpressed and a little bored. Sure there’s some mildly interesting weirdness but overall too insipid to succeed as entertainment.

And now my pointless symbolism analysis; which I don't expect any to read and largely write for therapeutic reasons. Insanely long wall of text. You have been warned.
alexander warned against reading too much into the imagery, but reading is fun! I’m not claiming this is in any way a meaningful spiel, I sure as hell probably don’t know what I’m talking about, but it’s just something I enjoyed writing. Nor is this a comprehensive analysis - I actually wrote one of those and then realised that even by standards that’s far too sadistically long-winded a thing to foist on anyone. Okay, enough disclaimers, here goes...

The Prince is Prologue. SEE WHAT I DID THERE, SHAKESPEARE NERDS?

The Prince is a fairy tale: He is narrated by a young girl, he arrives on a white horse and is closely associated with roses – okay everything’s associated with roses but the narrator stresses that part here. Specifically the white rose, as other visual cues make clear. The music and odd visual presentation here certainly seem to evoke the archetypal prince. Utena’s response is, well, less traditional, which gives the narrator time to chuckle a little at her expense. (This is also one of the voices narrating the shadow puppet show.) If the prince’s role is the most stereotypical one imaginable for gender in fairy tales, Utena’s response really isn’t. Bringing up gender may seem corny but I think from what we’ve seen so far Utena embracing a masculine identity is a big deal in this series, so hah. Her wearing of a boy’s uniform, being a ‘boyfriend’ to one girl and a ‘husband’ to another. Heck, she has squealing fangirls but no male interests, so far rejecting associating with them on any level.

Also, clearly the Prince has some relationship to Anthy. This is quite beside the observation that they’re the only dark skinned characters in a world of lily white people – Utena specifically gets the same rose smell from Anthy that she had done from the Prince, and there’s a mirror image of her being embraced by the Prince next to Utena being embraced by the Prince in the end credits. One of the more striking images of the opening credits is the Prince’s eyes opening as the jousting arena is destroyed, and this – combined with the significance of the rose seal which he’s given her - suggests to me he’s the End of the World everyone’s talking about. (By which I mean whoever or whatever is sending those letters rather than identifying him as a literal apocalypse.) And that’s not even starting on when she apparently drew on the Power of Dios to defeat Saionji in episode 2, which was shown as a ghostly form of the Prince coming down from the heavens to aid her... I’m leaving that duelling symbolism for later, I promise.

There’s a lot of symbolism that recurs. More about those in later weeks, but for now here’s my thoughts of the Absolute Destiny Apocalypse song:

Absolute Destiny Apocalypse: The Apocalypse (or Revelation) is a book in the Bible well known for its surreal and symbolic imagery – the interpretations as to what if anything it means are all and sundry. One popular view is that it’s about the end of the world, hence ‘apocalyptic’. So: Surreal symbolic end of the world? Seems apt for our topic, no? ‘Absolute Destiny’ suggests an extreme fatalism to me, and since we’ve seen members of the Student Council unquestioningly obey something called ‘the End of the Word’ I think that’s exactly what this refers to.

Records: Well, we get more Christian religious imagery here with the notion of baptism, the pouring of water onto the head (or submersion) which normally confirms one into the faith. Grouping that with birth and death puts it among the basic universal recorded events in one’s life – which it arguably would be in pre-revolutionary France. Okay I don’t have much here.

Shangri-La: The closest any of the symbols come to something I can identify as Eastern or Buddhist – if there are others they eluded me. Only, haha, it isn’t! Shangri-La is an ersatz Buddhist concept cooked up by a British writer. Either way it referred to an area on the continent so it’s certainly another ‘exotic’ symbol – like all the symbols so far. More to the point: Paradise.

Paradise Lost: A prose poem by John Milton which was a boffo hit back in the day - so big he followed it up with a crappy sequel, Paradise Regained. Take that English majors! The poem’s about how the original man and woman were cast out of the Garden of Eden – but its meaning here is, I think, self-explanatory. The use of ‘time-plated’ makes its connection to ‘gold-plated’ Shangri-La clearer – and what does that ‘plated’ mean anyway? Some kind of artificial worth or length imparted onto this world?

Sodom: A Biblical city that was so wicked that God destroyed it. The wickedness never actually spelled out but frequently assumed to be homosexuality because of a scene in Genesis where a crowd of Sodomites try to rape men and even turn down the reasonable alternative of raping women. That – combined with God’s stern no-no about gays in Leviticus – sort of seals the deal. So more apocalyptic imagery and maybe a little hint towards that gay subtext we’ve all been hearing about. In some subversive accounts Sodom too is a kind of decadent utopia, and the woman who looked back on the city before it was destroyed (for which she was turned to salt) did so with longing. So that’s THREE paradises if you accept this obscure half-remembered factoid as having any relevance. Either way we’ve got two paradises, two examples of sin and two apocalypses so far. Cute.

The Darkness of Light: There’s actually a lot of light/dark symbolism in this show – and heck, this song - but this one raises all sorts of questions. Usually light/dark symbolism is your standard good and evil dualism, but making the light dark is rejecting this, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get apparent goods which turn out to be evil – or apparent evils which turn out to be good – over the course of the show.

Now about those roses.

They’re easily the most prominent and repetitive symbol in the entire show so far. Different characters or objects even appear to be denoted by coloured roses on the sides of the screen. I admit the first thing that comes to mind about roses is very banal: They have thorns. This makes them a popular symbol for cruel beauty - and surely Saionji fits this part. Of course EVERYTHING is associated with the roses and they can’t all be cruel beauties – the Prince for instance. Still, maybe this has something to do with the darkness of light.

The only other thing that comes to mind is the Rosicrucians, a secret and mystical Christian group. Hm. Hang on, there might actually be something to that comparison. I promise to brush up on my Rosicrucianism and see if I can’t talk more about them next week. Either way, one thing is clear: I’m not done talking about roses.
 
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mmmm what can i say....the first 2 eps were pretty boring yet highly entertaining cause i laugh at stuff like this a lot.

the old animation doesn't bother me at all since i love older anime and watch a lot of it.

the sword fighting it kinda lame when it's trying to be really cool. the whole win by cutting the flower so you can get the bride is kinda weird

I'm sick of seeing the bride get slapped around already. i hope this doesn't continue throughout this series.

the random singing really pisses me off and like valondar i don't like Chu-Chu. the school friend is really annoying as well.

these rings interest me for some reason.

sorry valondar i read some of your long symbolism stuff but i don't look that far into most things until i like the series...even then i don't really do it :P
 
sorry valondar i read some of your long symbolism stuff but i don't look that far into most things until i like the series...even then i don't really do it :P
I don't like the series, which is why I'm doing this, ironically.

I get more fun out of puzzling the meaning of the symbolism then I do actually watching the show - I never devoted this much thought to Evangelion or Lain or whatever because they were just fun to watch.

I agree with you that Utena's schoolgirl friend is annoying and the duels aren't anything special so far.

these rings interest me for some reason.

I'm getting to those. :P
 
the random singing really pisses me off and like valondar i don't like Chu-Chu. the school friend is really annoying as well.
It's not really random. It's more like they reserved a spot for it every episode before any other thing was planned. ;p
 
ok well the well planned out shitty music pisses me off :P

LOL valondar i'll read that part
 
ep2
I think they were going for Pen-Pen with this character but they wound up with Pikachu.

The mouse is there to soften the blow of Himemiya's...personality. IIRC it's hardly used once scenes between her and Utena get less boring.

Ritualised formula, but it’s still just magical girl transformation scenes and duelling given a moderately weird twist.

The "formula" actually has influences like Takarazuka. The inappropriate use of roses, lifts, bells, ... is what makes the series so fun to watch.

Shangri-La: The closest any of the symbols come to something I can identify as Eastern or Buddhist

Paradise Lost: A prose poem by John Milton which was a boffo hit back in the day

I get more fun out of puzzling the meaning of the symbolism then I do actually watching the show

Whatever makes you happy. But be told that Shangri and Lost are only the translator's embellishment of perfectly ordinary Japanese words. You could just as well focus on the less than ideal English title (少女革命!) or their game of Daifugou ^^

ok well the well planned out shitty music pisses me off

The music is great! Soon a few distinctive chords will suffice to induce fits :D
 
i watched 3-4 and i can say nothing really but.... i hate the music :P

the piano ep was really boring. I laughed at the ball scene where she takes the tablecloth and magically made it into a dress. WHEN WILL THE BRIDE STOP GETTING SLAPPED AROUND!!!! I'm so tired of this already
 
i watched 3-4 and i can say nothing really but.... i hate the music :P

the piano ep was really boring. I laughed at the ball scene where she takes the tablecloth and magically made it into a dress. WHEN WILL THE BRIDE STOP GETTING SLAPPED AROUND!!!! I'm so tired of this already
*lures chii away with some mermaids*

It's really more of specialized taste. I don't think it's an acquired one. Utena doesn't do much to draw you in later if you didn't like the initial setup except for maybe people like r-18. At least it seems you've not gotten bored with the walk up the stairway yet . . .
 
so what is there in it that would attract someone with ....specialized tastes
I guess niche would be better, but that word didn't quite sound right in the sentence I had.
In the beginning nothing really other than bishounens and weird shounen-ish tournament stuff coupled with a strange setting. In the latter half, yuri-ism and incest.
 
*lures chii away with some mermaids*

It's really more of specialized taste. I don't think it's an acquired one. Utena doesn't do much to draw you in later if you didn't like the initial setup except for maybe people like r-18. At least it seems you've not gotten bored with the walk up the stairway yet . . .

dunno if the mermaids is a better offer :laugh:

and it's not so much that i hate the anime it's self. just the music and some stupidness atm :P
 
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I thought it was two episodes a week. :P

alexander - Thanks for the note about the spurious translation.

And I knew about Takarazuka influence; but Takarazuka influenced ritualism is still also formulaic magical girl crap. It'd be that even if influenced by bunraku or noh.

(And if Chu-Chu fades to the background as the series progresses then it does kind of solidify my point as him being Pen-Pen, no? Either way, I don't mind comic relief. It just has to be, y'know, comic.)

This is hardly Angel's Egg in the ritualism department, so there.

Well this sound slike a hoot.

Can you see yet why it's recced so much with Rose of Versailles?

Haven't watched that, but let me manage a guess: The series has been cited as a major influence on the show and many have glibly referred to Utena as a remake. They both feature a pre-revolutionary France atmosphere (not that Utena actually has France) and a girl who dresses as a boy. I'll let someone who's watched both build on that.
 
hehe ya i know i watched 4 in a row so i don't have to watch it again for 2 weeks ;)
 
ep2
And I knew about Takarazuka influence; but Takarazuka influenced ritualism is still also formulaic magical girl crap.

And if Chu-Chu fades to the background as the series progresses then it does kind of solidify my point as him being Pen-Pen, no?

I nowhere actually contradicted you, only complemented, so no need for a counter-attack :)

They both feature a pre-revolutionary France atmosphere

Did you notice any? I only heard the student council use the word revolution, and can't see politics.
 
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^
Ah. My apologies. I'm tetchy and argumentive by nature. Thanks again about the translation notes, though, that was helpful. I'm all for liberal translation but I don't think they should just be throwing words like that in.


And chii... I don't blame you.
 
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