"i want" - ga hoshi versus tai form

[sothis]

my background: 3 years of japanese in college (~4-5 years ago) and of course, anime watching.

i'm currently doing those japanese on cd lessons in the car during my 2 hours combined of rush hour daily, and have encountered a few weird things. this is a basic level 1 cd series, so maybe they are just trying to keep it basic?

the cds say that you always use ga hoshi for "i want". so sake ga hoshi desu.

however, in school i had learned that you instead use the tai form of a verb... so "watashi wa ikitai!" etc.

is hoshi ga more like... "i have a want for <whatever object>" and tai form is used solely for verbs? how does that break down?

[kingofbraves]

I think your memory is more accurate than the cd on this one.

欲しい(hoshii) means to want/obtain an object.
-たい(-tai) means to feel-like/would-like a verb.

examples:

I want that new B'z album.
あの新しいB'zのアルバム欲しいな。

I want to go buy that new B'z album.
あの新しいB'zのアルバム買いに行きたいな。

I want that girl as my girlfriend.
あの娘に彼女になって欲しい。

I would like to make that girl my girlfriend.
あの娘を彼女にしたいな。

[XMrNiceguyX]

As it has been taught to me (I'm also studying Japanese) is that '-tai' should be translated as "the will to..." in the initial translation, while 'hoshii' is used more often as "want to (obtain)". In retrospect one could also not use 'hoshii' with verbs.

Using this, we can show this with some examples of how to and how not to:

"Kuruma wo kau koto ga hoshii" is wrong.
'I want to obtain buying a car', which is total nonsense.

"Kuruma ga/wo kaitai" is right.
'I want to buy a car', does make sense on the other hand.

If we would then look at the examples you have given us. The first sentence would indeed use the nuanced meaning of hoshii (want to obtain). The second sentence is more aimed at the action of buying it. The first situation would be something that you want that CD for your birtday or something like that. There is somewhat less neccesity to it. As for the second: it sound more like you have been saving up for months, you've closely followed developments around publishing the CD and have already downloaded it... twice. Now you want to go buy it too.

In your second set of examples, we can use the same train of thought. The first is simply an exclamation for wanting that girl as a girlfriend (see: wanting a celeb as girlfriend), while the second shows a certain neccesity and that you've prepared yourself to do so (it's been a girl who'se been in the same class as you for 7 years straight and you've started develop feeling for her over those past 7 years and now you want het to be your girlfriend).

This is merely some brainstorming and could be somewhat odd, but I think I grasped the essence of the nuance between the two. Hope it helped.

[MrMiyagi]

1st Person: (declarative)
Baseball ga hoshii da --> I want a baseball.
Baseball wo asobitai da --> I want to play baseball. (figuratively speaking)
Baseball wo nagete hoshii da --> I want you to throw the baseball.

2nd Person: (interrogative)
Baseball ga hoshii desu ka? --> Do you want a baseball?
Baseball wo asobitai desu ka? --> Do you want to play baseball? (fig. speaking)
Baseball wo nagete hoshii desu ka? --> Do you want me to throw the baseball?

3rd Person:
Ichiro wa baseball ga hoshi gatte iru --> Ichiro wants a baseball.
Ichiro wa baseball wo asobita gatte iru --> Ichiro wants to play baseball. (fig. speaking)
Ichiro wa Dice-K ni baseball wo nagete moraita gatte iru --> Ichiro wants Dice-K to throw the baseball (fig. speaking)

[kingofbraves]

Forgot about that. The third example by MrMiyagi. You use "hoshii" when you want someone to do something for you.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

MrMiyagi, what does the "gatte" part mean? I'm taking classes and using audio CDs and that word came up on the cd when telling someone what somebody else wants. Can you explain the grammar behind it? Is it just a different way of ending words (ie -katta, -tai, -masyoo, etc) or is it actually a totally different word?

-
Origianl post... its already been answered but i'll throw my thing in anyways ;)
-tai is used for turning verbs into some action that you want to do:
nomitai desu = I want to drink

Hosi is for when you want something:
sake ga hosi desu = I want sake

but sake o nomitai desu = I want to drink sake.

[MrMiyagi]

Originally Posted by Mr. sickVisionz

MrMiyagi, what does the "gatte" part mean? I'm taking classes and using audio CDs and that word came up on the cd when telling someone what somebody else wants. Can you explain the grammar behind it? Is it just a different way of ending words (ie -katta, -tai, -masyoo, etc) or is it actually a totally different word?

OK, first thing you guys need to remember is that "hoshii" is an adjective, and the "~tai" form turns a verb into an adjective (relatively speaking)... this is why you can use "ga" as well as "wo"... thus, all rules for adjectives apply to the "~tai" form...

now to answer the question, I'll clarify the third person examples... (note: this was a tough one; it was like answering the articles "a(n)" and "the" questions I always get)


3rd Person:
Ichiro wa baseball ga hoshi gatte iru.
Lit. Speaking --> Ichiro is showing the sign of wanting a ball.
Fig. Speaking --> Ichiro wants a baseball.

Ichiro wa baseball wo asobita gatte iru.
Lit. Speaking --> Ichiro is showing the sign of wanting to play baseball.
Fig. Speaking --> Ichiro wants to play baseball.

Ichiro wa Dice-K ni baseball wo nagete moraita gatte iru.
Lit. Speaking --> Ichiro is showing the sign of wanting to receive the favor of throwing a baseball from Dice-K. (*say that 10 times fast)
Fig. Speaking --> Ichiro wants Dice-K to throw the baseball. (*much easier)


as you could probably guess "~garu" literally means "show signs of"... it's used in the thrid person... it's normally used with common Psychology and Physiology i-adjectives... it can be used with a few, just a few, na-adjectives... off the top of my head, "iya-garu" (to dislike)

I hope this answers your question somewhat... see, sometimes it's just better to accept language in its figurative form; literal forms can be quite confusing... this is why idioms and puns are so difficult for Japanese (and other non-native English speakers) to figure out... sometimes best not to ask...

[SlaserX]

Dont forget Hoshigaru!

[MrMiyagi]

Originally Posted by SlaserX

Dont forget Hoshigaru!

it wasn't forgotten... it was explained...

[SlaserX]

Yeah, well I was too lazy to read it all...