[REQUEST] Suggestions on possible Anirec interface modifications

[v16]

Well, this in part being inspired by another suggestion thread, I'll just put in one place the ideas I think could improve AniRecDB ergonomics.

Just a few small things which could make it more convenient, with an example of how it would look.
Of course, all graphics are just quick copypasta and not actually suggested.
[Oh well. It breaks the forum layout.]

The sketch of interface changes.


Brief list:
- First, the already mentioned button for recommendations.
- Move the relations button and perhaps do smth. about Anidb button to accommodate it better.
- Add button to expand the dropdown box.
- Add "Make Recommendations" button in the recommendation tab, below all text.


If the Anidb button is to be moved and made into text (for consistency), I'm not sure where should it go, but perhaps the most logical place is near the release format.

Besides, it might also be a good idea to skip the rolling in and out effect when switching between tabs. Or at least speed it up, it's not all that entertaining to watch after a while.
[If some effect is still desired, perhaps a good idea would be "new screen over the old one" - new text and pictures rolling down, together with the bottom picture.]

A button for expanding the dropdown box to full text length would also be useful; a good location is near the [x] button, as customary in modern window interfaces.

[sothis]

i like these ideas. i especially think it makes sense to move the anidb link to, perhaps, a small ubtton with just the icon, next to the release line. this way it clears up some space for more buttons. though, "buy" does need to be in there eventually, and i still am thinking there needs to be room for "clips". also relations will eventually say "relations & more info" o rsomething similar, to contain useful facts or potentially studio/etc type info.

[Tetra]

Why make the make show recommendation function less visible? Yes it would be consistent, but sometimes that is not what is best. I would put visibility above consistency in this case. It might be a good idea to do both, but it would add a layer of redundancy and there really is no space for it.
The add recommendation at the end of the scroll down is a good idea, but I wonder if it is doable... Sothis?
Why would you want a button to expand the drop-down? I do not get it. There already is a way to read more (the scrollbar) which may not be consistent with the rest of the page, but is a very well recognised tool, especially in the context of "read more if you scroll down".
Why move relations? I dont get this either.
I agree that it is strange that there is one button that look like the others but is a link off site. But, as you said, where would it go? We want it visible and after having used it once a person remember what it do and where it leads.

[v16]

Why make the make show recommendation function less visible? Yes it would be consistent, but sometimes that is not what is best. I would put visibility above consistency in this case.

It actually seems more visible to me as a button rather than just text link. Especially in the center.

Why would you want a button to expand the drop-down?

Just extra ergonomics. First, with scrollbar you have to scroll, rather than just move your eyes - and picking out something with the eyes is many times faster than scrolling. Second, there are two scrollbars, browser's own and one on the page; that means you can't, say, easily glance through all recs for two titles at once.
Not that scrollbar doesn't work, but more direct interface is useful as well. Just look at the reply box in this forum: in the right corner there are buttons to expand it, even though there is a scrollbar.

Why move relations? I dont get this either.

Simply to keep the Recommendations button always in the center. Most entries don't have relations tab, and many don't really have relations at all. Besides, attention center, the thumbnail, is on the left, and we want reviews to be more in focus than relations.

[Tetra]

It actually seems more visible to me as a button rather than just text link. Especially in the center.

I guess we are different there. I actually did not notice the buttons at the bottom for months.

Just extra ergonomics. First, with scrollbar you have to scroll, rather than just move your eyes - and picking out something with the eyes is many times faster than scrolling.

Most of the time the recommendations span over more than one page, so one would have to use the scrollbar on the page to scroll down even if the recs were expanded.
Second, what symbol would be used? The questionmark that is used to expand indivitual recs on for example the my-recs pages that only is expanded as long as you hoover over the button, or the plusses that are used to add things everywhere else? If we want to avoid conflicting messages a third symbol would have to be implemented. If the plus is used I can easilly imagine that some people will think that it is a fast way of adding your own rec-vote as it is used to add your own on other places (they see that 3 people think that Rah Xephon is like EVA, and agree with that, so they press plus to make it 4), and if the questionmark is used people would think that it was expanded only while they hoover over it, and that makes it harder to read the last recs.
It would be easier to skip the added button and just display all the rec-reasons immediately. And it would give the functionality you wanted (to be able to see two expanded recs at once)

Second, there are two scrollbars, browser's own and one on the page; that means you can't, say, easily glance through all recs for two titles at once.

Maybe...it is however true that two scrollbars that close makes the one on the page less visible, and easy to forget. And that is a reason to not have it.

Simply to keep the Recommendations button always in the center. Most entries don't have relations tab, and many don't really have relations at all. Besides, attention center, the thumbnail, is on the left, and we want reviews to be more in focus than relations.

Mmm it is rather sporadic, but it is used... must have a placement for the feature if it is moved.
Are you sure the middle position is the most visible? When we look at things we look in the corners first, the middle is almost always overlooked, especially if a person is looking for a link/button. People search the edges and skips the middle. That is why the current placement is so good. It might be an idea, however, to redo the text link into a similar button as the ones at the bottom, but keep the position, to make it more consistent.
It would have to be named "make recommendations" as it is now, otherwise it would be assumed that you press it to see the already made recommendations (that is displayed already)

[v16]

Most of the time the recommendations span over more than one page, so one would have to use the scrollbar on the page to scroll down even if the recs were expanded.

Yes. But just the browser scrollbar.

Displaying all recs expanded immediately would be most convenient personally for me, and I would turn on such mode permanently if possible. But I guess if it had scrollbox implemented, there might be reasons against making it default.

As for what exactly symbol to use, of course not "+"; I simply didn't dive into such detail and copypasted what was close.

Are you sure the middle position is the most visible?

Depends on how does one look, of course. Only if he's reading the text, otherwise not really - the most visible positions are "reviews" and "screenshots". But the screenshots button really belongs below a screenshot, and I figure out we still want to keep reviews visible. May be swapped, I don't have definite position on it.
A button in the middle, though, can be easily made more noticeable without breaking the layout.

I guess we are different there. I actually did not notice the buttons at the bottom for months.

Hmm. Perhaps we can then keep both access ways.

[Tetra]

Originally Posted by v16

Depends on how does one look, of course. Only if he's reading the text, otherwise not really - the most visible positions are "reviews" and "screenshots".

Just a short answer before I go to bed.
When I studied perception for implementation on computer screens we talked alot about how to make things visible, the placement of search functions, menues and buttons and such things. And while there is no definite way of design that is always right, the middle is generally a bad idea. If there is a vertical or horisontal list of similar text, buttons or functions the first and last is the most visible. And they are not percieved as having any difference in importance. The only thing I can think about that would make the button stand out in the middle is to use color or making it different from the others, and neither is a good idea. (color would disrupt the entry, and a difference might change the percieved affordances)
Offcourse I can remember wrong, but from what I have seen in test situations (limited experience so far) it is correct.

[eibwen]

I've recently encountered this growing thread and am typing my comments to the posts as I read through them...

Originally Posted by v16

Well, this in part being inspired by another suggestion thread, I'll just put in one place the ideas I think could improve AniRecDB ergonomics.

For clarification, it's not really "Anime Planet ergonomics" (or even "Anime Planet Recommendation Database egonomics"), but rather user-browser-content ergonomics. The distinction being that the user will still have to interact (eg view, click, whatever) with the content through the browser, which will not be affected.

The proposal sounds more like a "site redesign" for various reasons, much moreso than ergonomics is really concerned.

Originally Posted by v16

Just a few small things which could make it more convenient, with an example of how it would look.

I'll interpret "would look" as "could look".

Originally Posted by v16

- First, the already mentioned button for recommendations.

This should be clarified as the listing of Recommendations for a given anime are distinct from the "Make Recommendations" interface.

If you are proposing an image (NOTE: images are not inputs of type button, those are very different HTML elements) for "Make Recommendations", fine. However, the "Make Recommendation" interface should remain on a separate page and should NOT be an ajax.

NOTE: What has recently been referred to as "tabs" are really images with an onclick ajax that displays the relevant content. There are no actual tabs involved. When I state "ajax" I refer either to the technology and/or implementation itself, or the content generated from an ajax transaction.

I oppose the notion of a "Recommendations" image for "Click here to read why", for linguistic reasons. The current title of the link is poor and stands to be revised; however it should be apparent that the content that will be displayed when the link is clicked is not "Recommendations" of any sort, but rather the reasons why the various individuals recommended that anime. I don't mind if this is made as an image, and it would be more consistent as such; however I strongly oppose titling the image "Recommendations".

I can understand the merit of a true "Recommendations" ajax that shows all the recommended anime as well as the user's commments for a given anime, ONLY if anime title listings are changed (perhaps optionally) to display as anirec entries. Even then, I'd recommend to delegate the actual "Recommendations" to the anirec page for that anime.

In summary, "Make Recommendations", "Click here to read why" comments, and actual Recommended anime are very distinct and should be maintained as such. The provided image mockup introduces considerable ambiguity and hinders the current ease of use of the site.

Originally Posted by v16

- Move the relations button

If you want to prioritize the buttons by significance, fine. Not sure "Screenshots" is the most significant however. In fact, I'd assert that the "Click here to read why" comments are the main focus of the anirec, and should probably be listed early if not first.

Originally Posted by v16

and perhaps do smth. about Anidb button to accommodate it better.

Please clarify. If you requesting clarification, distinction, and/or consistency of ajax and non-ajax links, okay... Personally I find that regulating non-ajax links to the end of the list is appropriate and works well enough.

Originally Posted by v16

- Add button to expand the dropdown box.

I'm going to have to attempt to make an inference here from the screenshot mockup here. (PLEASE clearly state what you're attempting to convey). I assume you mean the + graphic you added next to the x graphic.

I have no idea what you intend for this; however in brief if you intend for it to click the anime status select box dropdown for you (the little down arrow to the right of a select element), then this violates human interface guidelines and is technically impossible for a variety of reasons.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were referring to another purpose; however as an uninformed end-user of the provided mockup, I cannot infer the effect of the + image link...

Originally Posted by v16

- Add "Make Recommendations" button in the recommendation tab, below all text.

It should appear above, not below if remaining within the scrolled viewport. Otherwise below would be okay, but this is missing the point. There is absolutely no reason to abstract access to this functionality.

When viewing an anirec page, if you want to "Click here to read why" it takes one click. If you want to look at screenshots it takes one click. In fact the only thing that currently takes multiple clicks (IIRC) is the "Make a Review" howto description that still states (to be added soon or similar). I propose retaining one-click access to all functionality and moving the "Make a Review" blurb to a "Make Review" page, and add an equivalent "Make Review" link.

There is absolutely no reason to require a user to make use of ajax to be able to access the link and be able to submit a recommendation...

Besides that in and of itself violates least suprise, as "Click here to read why" comments would then also have a "add your own comment"? Unless you were recommending the same pairing that would be problematic at best, and even as such would still be in poor form.

Originally Posted by v16

If the Anidb button is to be moved and made into text (for consistency), I'm not sure where should it go, but perhaps the most logical place is near the release format.

I can understand recommending moving it for the sake of consistency given that currently (IIRC) it's the only non-ajax image link. However I'd oppose the idea of changing it to a text link, and particularly placing such a link near the format. After all both AniDB and Anime Planet do not limit their database information to just the release format, but all information pertaining to the anime.

Originally Posted by v16

Besides, it might also be a good idea to skip the rolling in and out effect when switching between tabs. Or at least speed it up, it's not all that entertaining to watch after a while.

You do not understand what's happening. I'll attempt a brief (limited) introduction to the ajax process:

1. You load an anirec page that just has what you see. The content in the "tabs" still resides on the server and is NOT downloaded.
2. You click on an image link (mistakenly referred to as tabs), which performs an additional query from the server without refreshing the page (it's magic). Note that this takes time, and will result in a visual delay while the content is being downloaded.
3. The browser completes downloading the content from the server and optionally passes it to a javascript for processing
4. The javascript generates the html and adds the necessary elements so the content can be displayed

Hopefully the above wasn't too technical or too brief. In short, the delay happens because you have to download the requested content from the server.

To alleviate this, all the ajax content could be included in the page when you download it. It would result in considerably longer download times as the content for each tab for each anirec entry on the page would have to be downloaded. This would likely affect rendering times as well, and is not bandwidth friendly. In short, this won't happen.

Alternately, the background graphics for the "tab" could be displayed with a little loading or waiting indicator. Note that a progressbar cannot be used as it is not readily amenable to ajax.

Originally Posted by v16

A button for expanding the dropdown box to full text length would also be useful; a good location is near the [x] button, as customary in modern window interfaces.

First, there's a whole 'nother discussion of css, html, human interface guidelines, world wide web consortium things to discuss for this one. Suffice it to say that there's no value added. If you personally don't want to see a vertical scrollbar, you can change your personal css overrides for the overflow property.

Adding a button for this effect is in poor taste and violates human interface guidelines, least surprise, and the list I mentioned above.

The statement "as customary in modern window interfaces" is both false and ridiculous. This statement is so open-ended and ambiguous as to ... I'll refrain from yet another diatribe, and merely comment that as an actual User Interface programmer there are limited acceptable uses for the discussed functionality in very specific graphic widgets; however this does not include a vertical scrollbar in a browser or otherwise.

Originally Posted by sothis

i like these ideas. i especially think it makes sense to move the anidb link to, perhaps, a small ubtton with just the icon, next to the release line. this way it clears up some space for more buttons. though, "buy" does need to be in there eventually, and i still am thinking there needs to be room for "clips".

Again, distinguishing between ajax and non-ajax links is fine; however the release line is not a good spot for an AniDB link.

Leave this one alone. Yes it will get crowded, with AniDB, Purchase, Legal Preview, and similar links; however placing such links in different formats and/or locations just makes the problem worse. The real problem then is content reorganization not link shuffling.

Originally Posted by v16

Second, there are two scrollbars, browser's own and one on the page; that means you can't, say, easily glance through all recs for two titles at once.
Not that scrollbar doesn't work, but more direct interface is useful as well. Just look at the reply box in this forum: in the right corner there are buttons to expand it, even though there is a scrollbar.

This is a violation of human interface guidelines, least surprise, etc. Just because it's done on occasion on the web doesn't mean that it's good, much less should be imitated.

Originally Posted by v16

Simply to keep the Recommendations button always in the center. Most entries don't have relations tab, and many don't really have relations at all. Besides, attention center, the thumbnail, is on the left, and we want reviews to be more in focus than relations.

Again:

Recommended Anime != Recommendation comments != ...

I don't mind making this an ajax with an image link, but it absolutely should not be called "Recommendations" when the content is merely "Reasons why this anime was recommended for the one at the top of this page"...


In closing, change can be good and Anime Planet does have room for improvement; however such drastic changes to the interface should not be taken lightly.

[VivisQueen]

I like most of V16s suggestions.

I can't wait to see 'watch a clip' feature on there. How is that legal, I wonder? It must be, since you're willing to put it up on the AniRec, but yeah, awesome!

TETRA: I also found it more logical to have a Recommendations button rather than the script at the top. There might be others with your opinion, I don't know, but as for me personally, I STILL sometimes look for a button before I remember it's the red writing at the top. Lol.

I know! Maybe keep the Recommendation tab at the top, but make it LOOK like a button. Because it's so important, it should stand out, and if we take your point about the first and last things being visually important, then yeah, maybe it should stay at the top. I think for consistency's sake, it should be a neater button format, though. That's me done. Lol.

[Reawen]

I also like most of V16's suggestions.

I've had the issue with the "click here to see why" link not being where I thought it would be, too... just because all of my other resource links are all lined up below. I actually just went back to look at it now, and I realized that (apparently) the reason it's there is that it seems to be a continuation of the statement from the left:

1 person thinks you'd like... click here to read why!

But I really never noticed that before

In all honesty I'm not overly concerned about any of these changes, whether they're implemented or not, I think I can live on happily enough (and now I've learned to look for the "click here" link, so in regards to my own personal well-being, it doesn't matter :p)

However, I think from this brief discussion (and I think the location of that link was discussed previously in another thread...?), it seems that there are at least a fair number of people who are missing it, so perhaps some change is in order.

The one thing I actually do think is a good point from eibwen's post, though, is that perhaps "Recommendations" isn't the best word, if you are adding the button. Because it's true that it's a slightly different meaning from what's actually there. However, I understand the real estate in that section is limited... I can't think of a better (short) option right now, and I think recommendations would work if no one comes up with something better.

And just to round this out with my comments on the other thoughts:
I have no preference regarding the whole debate of button order/placement, etc. I like the scrollbar in the drop down section, but wouldn't mind if there was some other option as well. And although I like the thought of having a "make recommendations" link inside the recommendations drop-down, I still think it would be a good idea to leave it outside where it is, so it's more visible. It could possibly be in both places, though... A little extra encouragement for people to make their own recs